Bad buddies...

[rabe]

What I do not really understand is, that you are talking about doing a technical dive, but going up to avoid deco.
The "technical" dives I know, are planned with bottom time, deco-stops, runtime etc. so that the dive-plan should have been discussed before. especially when to start ascending.

You say, you saw him at the anchor while you were above him. Why were you not able to reach the anchorline? Was the current so strong?

Sorry, my bad. When I say "technical" I mean that was a deep dive, in strong current with bad vis, in a middle of nowhere, with really ****** weather. My "technical" meant that a lot of skills were involved. I hope is clear(er) now.

I couldn't reach the anchor because it was too deep (-34 m). Moreover, the bad vis didn't allow me to see where the line was, and finally, the current was so strong that was impossible to reach.

 

[rabe]

A bad buddy is worse than no buddy sometimes. Train and quip yourself for solo diving (or self-reliant if you prefer). You can still buddy up, but if they leave you then you are still OK. If they start messing with you then end the dive and never dive with them again.

Indeed, solo is the next speciality course I'm taking.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Sorry, my bad. When I say "technical" I mean that was a deep dive, in strong current with bad vis, in a middle of nowhere, with really ****** weather. My "technical" meant that a lot of skills were involved. I hope is clear(er) now.

I couldn't reach the anchor because it was too deep (-34 m). Moreover, the bad vis didn't allow me to see where the line was, and finally, the current was so strong that was impossible to reach.

That's one of those dives I would have quickly decided to stay on the boat, or better yet, stay home. Losing the anchor on a dive offshore is a recipe for disaster. Unless there is a chase boat, even shooting a SMB may not help. If you surfaced down current the boat would have to pull up the ladder, cut or pull up the anchor and leave any other divers that may be in the water.

 

[rabe]

That's one of those dives I would have quickly decided to stay on the boat, or better yet, stay home. Losing the anchor on a dive offshore is a recipe for disaster. Unless there is a chase boat, even shooting a SMB may not help. If you surfaced down current the boat would have to pull up the ladder, cut or pull up the anchor and leave any other divers that may be in the water.

...actually, it was even worse: when they saw me far away, they try to come and get me, but the anchor was struck, and during the time they will try to fix the issue, I was back. Meanwhile, 3 other guys were completely gone and lost (and that's why they try to come and get me: they could).
The only 3 that made it safely to the boat was a couple that ascended immediately, and my ""buddy"".

 

[xmass-Eve]

Years ago, in my baby diving years, every year we went to Islas Medes (Spain) with my Belgian dive club. They put me together with an instructor that used to teach in that club but didn't anymore at the time. He just came on holiday with us. We went diving La Vaca (I think) who has two tunnels.
We were supposed to do the short tunnel (20m) so we start diving. We go into the tunnel but it gets darker and darker. I sign him to go back, twice, but he says no and keeps on going forward. I follow because I suppose he knows the place, he has been there several times before. Suddenly I don't see anything anymore, it's completely dark and we don't have any torches as we aren't supposed to do a no visibility dive. I grab his arm to not loose him and keep on following. We found the end of the long tunnel at one point. The dive center finds us later, they had to come all around the island, and weren't very happy we ended up there.

Let's say I learned lot of that dive. It was also the only time I came close to a panic. Now, I would just turn back and leave him be if he doesn't want to come with...

 

[rabe]

Let's say I learned lot of that dive. It was also the only time I came close to a panic. Now, I would just turn back and leave him be if he doesn't want to come with...

That's the thing that makes me think.
As a buddy myself, I have the responsibility to take care of him/her and avoid any troubles that he/she could go into.
Where is the line between: I'm gonna get you and take out of here and screw you, you're on your own now...


P.S.: I always dive with a least one torch.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

That's the thing that makes me think.
As a buddy myself, I have the responsibility to take care of him/her and avoid any troubles that he/she could go into.
Where is the line between: I'm gonna get you and take out of here and screw you, you're on your own now...


P.S.: I always dive with a least one torch.

Actually, every diver is completely responsible for their own actions.
As a buddy, you are there as a peer, to have someone to enjoy to the dive with, and to accompany them in the event of some unforseen circumstance that isn’t the fault of the diver, that may put your buddy in jeopardy and vise versa. You are not there to babysit a rekless and unsafe diver who does stupid stuff and unnecessarily puts your life in danger. You are also not responsible in the task of hearding cats. If they abandon the rules of buddy diving and the dive plan then it becomes their problem not yours. At that point you have no legal resonsibility to insure their safety.

 

[xmass-Eve]

P.S.: I always dive with a least one torch.

Now I do this too. But this whole story happened in 2006 or so. I didn't even have 50 dives yet, still going for my CMAS2*. As part of a diving club, you kinda trust the other ones. Also, I was still a 1* at the time. It means I was buddied up with a 4* at least. So you suppose they should know best.

Now, while teaching rescue courses, there is somewhere a part in the theory that explains that higher up levels aren't always to be trusted because of different reasons. I learned that And I try to be an ideal buddy for insta-buddies because of it. But I am thankful I dive most of the time with my bf. We know each others diving by heart.

 

[jonhall]

At that point you have no legal resonsibility to insure their safety.

At any point, does a buddy have a "legal responsibility" to insure another's safety?

In life guarding, a lifeguard has been trained on techniques to rescue a distressed swimmer. You try to do so without making direct contact, which is the last resort, so you're not endangering yourself. There are lots of stories of non trained people trying to make water rescues who wind up drowning themselves. As a lifeguard, I may have the responsibility to make a rescue, but as a buddy (without training) out with my friends at the local quarry, their safety is not my responsibility so don't see myself as being liable.

If there is an accident on dry land or someone suffers something such as a cardio event, as a Good Samaritan, I may try to help, even if I haven't the proper training. But if I don't know what's wrong with a person or CPR, I don't believe I'm responsible/liable for their health just because I'm near them.

Same for diving with buddies in my mind. If a buddy wants to endanger their life, I'm not trained to do just anything underwater, but use some common sense and know my capabilities and comfort level. If a buddy decides to explore a tunnel and I decide to stay above it, liability surely doesn't fall on me if the buddy has a problem.

Not that I wouldn't help people in distress, but as a regular guy, I don't think there is ever a legal responsibility when paired with a dive buddy, unless you are a DM possibly employed by the dive op running the dives. But even then, if the buddy swam off, I think the DM no longer has liability.

 

[scubadada]

The majority of my diving is drift diving in SE Florida. I generally dive by myself, but do not mind taking another diver or a small group with me, particularly if they are new to drift diving, do not know the area, and/or simply are not confident to do the dive. I give my buddies a concise briefing that has worked out extremely well for me. I tell them that I have the flag and that it is their responsibility to keep me within sight. It's not that I won't occasionally take a glance to make sure they are around, but the main responsibility is theirs. I am slow and steady, very easy to stay with, of course the current may be brisk at times or visibility might be down. I tell them that my dive will generally have a bottom time of 60-70 minutes, sometimes they do the entire dive with me. I ask only that they let me know when they have to ascend. Many of these folks are perfectly able and happy to make their own ascent up on the flag and get picked up by the boat. If they are not comfortable with this, or do not seem to have the necessary skills, I will ascend with them to the safety stop, sometimes make the stop, and make sure they are in a position to get picked up. If I have time left, I descend and finish my dive.

I've never lost a buddy with this plan. Some of them have quickly become reasonably competent drift divers. I dived with a young man and his wife, both had a teens number of dives and hadn't dived recently. On the first dive, the man did OK, the woman had many problems, started out under weighted, lost a weight pouch early in the dive, tank came out mid-dive, some trouble with buoyancy... I went up to the safety stop with them and then finished my dive. They both did fine on the second dive and ascended together up on the flag. Later, they thanked me for the help and said they had a good time. They went out on another boat the next day. I happened to briefly see them on the second dive, the husband had the flag and they had another couple of divers with them. They gave me a big OK and we happily went our separate ways. That was very cool