Baggage fees.. Tightening the Screws

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Horsepuckey.

They CHOOSE to price the way they do. By breaking it down, they get to present an artificially low price. I want an all-in price, which is what most people want. Don't nickle and dime me, just give me the price.

Airline pricing needs to be re-regulated. They play with this pricing all the time, still manage to get it wrong, and every few years go through a bankruptcy cycle. Airline management is an oxymoron.

Simplify the structure so people know what they are buying, and price it to make a proper profit.

You say that, but I can't imagine it is true. Someone needs to find the citation, but I am sure I read deregulation has lower the cost of a ticket by like 40% in adjusted dollars.

But heck yes, lets let the Gov regulate it. The gov always does stuff cheaper, faster and better. This way is dumb with companies trying to serve the public for the least price. And when they screw it up, they get bumped out of the business instead of being supported and helped. Messy. It is always better to have the gov set pricing than the marketplace. Then they would be able to make a steady reasonable profit. I mean if the airlines had a profit and loss statement like the Gov, we wouldn't have to worry about them going bankrupt, right? :(

On the other hand, when I get a ticket for less than $400 that will take me 1500 miles to a foreign country and bring me back I am happy.:D
 
On the other hand, when I get a ticket for less than $400 that will take me 1500 miles to a foreign country and bring me back I am happy.
When $100+ of that is listed taxes and fees, not counting hidden taxes. Many countries charge a tax when you leave, and I have seen kids begging Departure Tax money at airports, but Mexican tickets have that built in.

Looking at my daughter's idea of a family trip to DC next summer: Air LBB-DCA is about the same as LBB-CZM, and we get a free bag checked to CZM. I'd like to take my family to our capital, but it so tempting. :eyebrow:
 
When $100+ of that is listed taxes and fees, not counting hidden taxes. Many countries charge a tax when you leave, and I have seen kids begging Departure Tax money at airports, but Mexican tickets have that built in.

Looking at my daughter's idea of a family trip to DC next summer: Air LBB-DCA is about the same as LBB-CZM, and we get a free bag checked to CZM. I'd like to take my family to our capital, but it so tempting. :eyebrow:

DD, I can slip down to DC and get you some post cards and some pics you can photo shop the fam into. Go to COZ!
 
When $100+ of that is listed taxes and fees, not counting hidden taxes. Many countries charge a tax when you leave, and I have seen kids begging Departure Tax money at airports, but Mexican tickets have that built in.

Holy Kriminee, I just looked and the airline is only getting $250 of my $372? Really? The rest is taxes and such. $250 for Delta and a free bag? Seriously, the gov could do better?
 
Horsepuckey.

They CHOOSE to price the way they do. By breaking it down, they get to present an artificially low price. I want an all-in price, which is what most people want. Don't nickle and dime me, just give me the price.

Airline pricing needs to be re-regulated. They play with this pricing all the time, still manage to get it wrong, and every few years go through a bankruptcy cycle. Airline management is an oxymoron.

Simplify the structure so people know what they are buying, and price it to make a proper profit.
Horsepuckey yourself. I don't deny that the airlines use tactics like quoting prices with fees not included and charging for stuff that used to be free, but they are competing for a dwindling resource and employ these tactics to wrest market share from each other. I agree that it would be better for customers if they all gave a what-you-see-is-what-you-get fare for every flight, but none of them can afford to be the only one who does it.

I am not an apologist for the airlines, but it is one thing to sit at a computer and type up a bunch of "they oughtas" but it is quite another to try to run a business where capacity is larger than the market. It's easy to snipe at them from afar, but it's a futile exercise. It is what it is. Speaking strictly for myself, I get as informed as I can before I plunk down for a plane ticket and I play the game that is before me. Whining does no good.
 
You say that, but I can't imagine it is true. Someone needs to find the citation, but I am sure I read deregulation has lower the cost of a ticket by like 40% in adjusted dollars.

But heck yes, lets let the Gov regulate it. The gov always does stuff cheaper, faster and better. This way is dumb with companies trying to serve the public for the least price. And when they screw it up, they get bumped out of the business instead of being supported and helped. Messy. It is always better to have the gov set pricing than the marketplace. Then they would be able to make a steady reasonable profit. I mean if the airlines had a profit and loss statement like the Gov, we wouldn't have to worry about them going bankrupt, right? :(

On the other hand, when I get a ticket for less than $400 that will take me 1500 miles to a foreign country and bring me back I am happy.:D

If you are suggesting that I am saying prices are not lower, you are wrong. What I *am* saying is that they way they are pricing allows them to say things like origin to destination round trip for $99 and when the total hits your credit card it is $399 because of fees and taxeand surcharges, and then you wind up paying an extra $100 for baggage at check in each way and before you know it your $99 ticket is really $599.

I am also not suggesting that government regulation will make it cheaper. Cheaper has come at the cost of cattle class seating where an average size male feels like he is riding in kiddie class. I would rather pay more for a stable industry that doesn't devolve to the lowest common denominator.

To be clear, though, I would be happy with government regulation that simply forced all-in pricing with truth in advertising.
 
Horsepuckey yourself. I don't deny that the airlines use tactics like quoting prices with fees not included and charging for stuff that used to be free, but they are competing for a dwindling resource and employ these tactics to wrest market share from each other. I agree that it would be better for customers if they all gave a what-you-see-is-what-you-get fare for every flight, but none of them can afford to be the only one who does it.

I am not an apologist for the airlines, but it is one thing to sit at a computer and type up a bunch of "they oughtas" but it is quite another to try to run a business where capacity is larger than the market. It's easy to snipe at them from afar, but it's a futile exercise. It is what it is. Speaking strictly for myself, I get as informed as I can before I plunk down for a plane ticket and I play the game that is before me. Whining does no good.

First off, I really detest it when people use the F-word - Free. None of it was ever free. Ever. It was not a seperate charge, but it was never free. No business ever gives you anything for free. Somebody is paying for it.

Secondly, please point out the "whine". If all commentary is "whining", then please stop "whining" about my post. I personally do not see anything wrong with commenting on or criticizing the status quo. If you are content to go through life simply saying "it's a futile exercise. It is what it is.", that is your perogative. I choose not to be so accepting of shoddy treatment.

I understand the "why" of their marketing approach. I do not agree that this is their only option, or that it is not possible to break from the pack and do it differently.

And if it is excess capacity that is the problem, why are they constantly adding new routes and flights? Why are they not cutting to get to a supply - demand place where they can be competitive and still make money? Suggesting that it is a capacity issue is a gross over simplification of the issues underlying the inability of the airlines to run a profitable business. It is a factor, but far from being the only one.
 
If you are suggesting that I am saying prices are not lower, you are wrong. What I *am* saying is that they way they are pricing allows them to say things like origin to destination round trip for $99 and when the total hits your credit card it is $399 because of fees and taxeand surcharges, and then you wind up paying an extra $100 for baggage at check in each way and before you know it your $99 ticket is really $599.

I am also not suggesting that government regulation will make it cheaper. Cheaper has come at the cost of cattle class seating where an average size male feels like he is riding in kiddie class. I would rather pay more for a stable industry that doesn't devolve to the lowest common denominator.

To be clear, though, I would be happy with government regulation that simply forced all-in pricing with truth in advertising.

Well I use Kayak, so I see it total. Nothing else advertises with tax and fees. I mean cars are the same right? At least houses they have to give you a list before you buy. Heck even ebay has people with low price and high shipping. "plus shipping and handling and tax" is standard in most things.
 
Well I use Kayak, so I see it total. Nothing else advertises with tax and fees. I mean cars are the same right? At least houses they have to give you a list before you buy. Heck even ebay has people with low price and high shipping. "plus shipping and handling and tax" is standard in most things.

Cars and houses are more occasional purchases, and are negotiable. Even there, I walk into a car dealership and the first thing I do is ask for the on-the-road price. I work from there.

I generally avoid eBay, because there are extremely few occasions where I cannot get it from a "legitimate" retailer for the same or less, precisely because of the shipping. If I am using eBay, it is usually because I can't find it elsewhere.

Having to add sales tax is a PITA, but at least there you know what you are adding - it is predictable.

There is nothing predictable about taxes and fees and surcharges and all the rest with air travel. It is a constantly moving landscape, both in terms of the types and number of different non-included charges, and in the size of those charges.
 
Well I use Kayak, so I see it total. Nothing else advertises with tax and fees. I mean cars are the same right? At least houses they have to give you a list before you buy. Heck even ebay has people with low price and high shipping. "plus shipping and handling and tax" is standard in most things.
Kayak is certainly good in a number of ways, yes including that taxes & fees are quoted on the search list for air, hotel, or car rentals. Have you tried Matrix Airfare Search tho? Matrix - ITA Software I really like search air there first for an entire month, and it quotes in total ticket costs.

The current industry approach about charging extra for bags & meals is not popular, but it had an honest beginning; they just seem to be pushing things too far. Different aspects are a matter of opinion I guess.

I generally avoid eBay, because there are extremely few occasions where I cannot get it from a "legitimate" retailer for the same or less, precisely because of the shipping. If I am using eBay, it is usually because I can't find it elsewhere.
That's an overly general statement I think, and wrong. It just depends on what you're looking for. Real shipping costs that the seller needs to pass along can be excessive, especially on heavier items, but the packing & handling costs may be much lower for the cottage business, or just more efficient companies, so the bottom line will vary. It's easy to enough to compare...


Locally available items;

Google or other search engine shopping with shipping, altho many of those do withhold shipping until you get to the end. Really I find this approach from your "legitimate" sources more misleading. I once had a seller that withheld shipping costs so well that I found that I had ordered, having never been quoted a price - and when I did find out the next day, I tried to cancel only to be told that it was too late. I threw a big one over that, insisting they take it back and refund in full, or just refund in full, either way - as they had been deceptive. I did win, but it was a battle as I recall.

Ebay "buy it now" shopping, lowest to highest including shipping. This can be the easiest, just by clicking the right features and looking on the same computer you are on now.​


Hint: You probably won't buy groceries online, or liquids, and my recent attempt to find finch food sent me back to Walmart - all heavier items, but cell phone accessories may be the worst thing to buy locally, with your carrier's stores being the highest. Yet most of us get a new cell phone every other year and really - most of us should get a new battery when the phone is one year old. For battery searches, I always include OEM in my preferences but batteries, car chargers, spare wall chargers, etc. are markedly cheaper on Ebay - and I do like everyone in my family to have a car charger and two wall chargers for each phone. Items coming from the Orient may take 2 or 3 weeks, but for 80% off - cool, as they have cheap postage treaties with the US making it cheaper to buy a new one there than mail one across a state. I still don't understand how some US shippers can ship some things so cheap, but it happens. Just not with 20# bags of birdseed, gallon jugs of liquids, and of course groceries.

Wow, I did get off track there, huh? :no:
Having to add sales tax is a PITA, but at least there you know what you are adding - it is predictable.

There is nothing predictable about taxes and fees and surcharges and all the rest with air travel. It is a constantly moving landscape, both in terms of the types and number of different non-included charges, and in the size of those charges.
Where are you shopping? Kayak, Matrix Airfare, and many other sites are good about quoting total prices on air, hotel, and car rentals, so I don't follow you? No, they don't have luggage fees, meal costs, airport parking rates, airport cafe menus, etc. listed but they are good on the basics.

Maybe you are shopping the providing company sites? Very bad move. It's fine to compare there, but those are the most offensive sites. Not only will they not quote the taxes and fees until they have to, many airlines have devious & evil computer programs that will monitor your shopping and raise fares as you keep looking at choices. At one time you could clear the site's cookies on your browser and try again but they are well beyond that; there is no anonymity any more, unless you go thru a middle site that will keep the secret. Many times I have had Continental Air quote me the lowest price possible, then Kayak quote the same Cont flights for $100 or so less, then connect me to Cont at the lower price to buy there.

"There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." :eyebrow:
 
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