• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Bahama Divers closed after lawsuit

Discussion in 'Scuba Related Court Cases' started by Miyaru, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. CuzzA

    CuzzA Solo Diver

    16,562
    27,864
    113
    Amazingly foolish. For less than a thousand dollars an attorney could have simply argued a motion to dismiss due to jurisdiction and the case would have likely been dismissed. If any court serves you with a lawsuit, you respond.
     
  2. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    26,459
    18,786
    113
    Link?
     
  3. Esprise Me

    Esprise Me Kelp forest dweller ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    869
    1,029
    93
  4. tridacna

    tridacna ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: New Jersey
    6,742
    3,975
    0
    Only a very small minority of these cases are won by plaintiffs. Remember that they’re done on contingency. Not all PI lawyers make huge $$$. Most are small-time plodders who eke out a living. The ones on the billboards are the exception.
     
  5. Cert1967

    Cert1967 Let's Go Skiing

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Vail, Colorado
    351
    252
    63
    Miyaru said:
    Quick search on the internet shows the 36 year old diver died in 2002. The other results were about his wife/widow starting a lawsuit against her own brother about diner issues.​
    boulderjohn said ↑
    Link?​

    Searching for what Miyaru found leads to the death of Jeffrey Dacid Cramin on May 9, 2002.

    The names match the parties in the Florida state action. "Cramin" is fairly unique and the first names match the case's caption.

    Maybe there is more than one Jeffrey and Marla Cramin?

    Anyway, this is what Miyaru likely found, plus a little more

    *****************************************************

    Source SS Death Index - public record
    Name:
    Jeffrey D. Cramin
    Social Security Number: 330-66-9910
    Birth Date: 7 Sep 1965
    Issue Year: 1977
    Issue State: Illinois
    Death Date: 9 May 2002

    Spokeo
    Marla Jaffe Cramin, 51
    RESIDES IN PROSPECT HEIGHTS, IL
    Lived In Highland Park IL, Northbrook IL, Indianapolis IN, Chicago IL
    Related To Jeffrey Cramin, Theodore Cramin
    Also known as Marla L Jaffe, Marla Jaffecramin​

    Owner of popular Evanston diner sues brother over future eatery
    Cramin and her husband, Jeff, bought the diner from its original owner, Sarkis Tashjian, in 2000. When Jeff Cramin died in an accident in 2002, the lawsuit said, Marla Cramin hired her brother to run Sarkis. But she fired her brother in 2012, according to her lawsuit.​

    Jeffrey Cramin - Obituary
    Jeffrey David Cramin, age 36, owner of Sarkis Cafe in Evanston, beloved husband and best friend of Marla, nee Jaffe; loving father of Brandon, Andrew and Samantha; adored son of Theodore Cramin and Diane Davidson; dear brother of Kevin Cramin; son-in-law of Stuart (the late Adrienne) Jaffe; brother-in-law of Scott (Debra), Alan and David (Jennifer) Jaffe; trusted friend of Truffles the dog. Friend to all Sarkis Cafe customers.​

    Other links
    Marla Cramin, Facebook, today, perhaps with Jeffrey

    perhaps jeffery cramin and marla cramin.png
     
  6. boulderjohn

    boulderjohn Technical Instructor ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Boulder, CO
    26,459
    18,786
    113
  7. Edward3c

    Edward3c Instructor, Scuba

    1,779
    955
    113
    The one bit of EU legislation that you could get caught on is the GDPR, but then they have to prove you did wrong.
     
  8. Miyaru

    Miyaru Tec Instructor ScubaBoard Sponsor

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
    Location: EU
    638
    681
    93
    Do you expect a legal answer? You won't get it.
    Read the pdf. Read post 3.

    The only thing mentioned by the plaintiff is negligence. If equipment had failed, there would have been more fuzz about it.
    Cause of death seems to be drowning. Which usually follows a primary problem, but if that can't be found, drowning is the easiest conclusion.
    No proof that the dive center caused the drowning, and the arguments raised by the defence are plausible, just too late. To me it's still plausible, I'm no judge or lawyer.
     
  9. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Cave Country!
    59,978
    28,331
    113
    Not that I can tell. It's poorly written and is exceedingly hard to try to enforce on non-European entities. One person has tried it and it didn't succeed. They didn't even come close.
     
  10. Esprise Me

    Esprise Me Kelp forest dweller ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    869
    1,029
    93
    I've read everything in this thread. Your theory that "negligence" doesn't cover the provision of faulty equipment is frankly bizarre. What exactly do you think the word means?

    Part of the reason default judgment exists is that it's often impossible for an injured party to prove what happened when the defense stonewalls them. When the police investigate a homicide, they can get permission from the court, upon a showing of probable cause, to knock down a suspect's door, rifle through his possessions, and take him to jail pending trial. That often helps them get to the bottom of things (though certainly not always!) Private citizens do not have those police powers to investigate civil wrongful death claims or other torts. Upon the filing of a lawsuit that meets the minimum standards, the court can compel the defendant to turn over relevant evidence through what's called the discovery process. However, the plaintiff still doesn't have police to kick down doors at his disposal. The worst the court can do to a defendant who refuses to cooperate is to find in favor of the plaintiff, which is what happened here.

    Unless you have sources you're not revealing to us, you have no evidence the dive op didn’t do something wrong. All we know, based on this thread, is that a customer of theirs drowned in 2002, his widow sued in a Florida court, they failed to respond, and she got a default judgment which was enforced by the Bahamian court. We don't know if they gave him a tank with CO2, or faulty equipment, or if they failed to notice his DSMB when he got separated from the group and signaled for help, or were negligent in any other way that may have contributed to his death. My personal unfounded suspicion is that they weren't negligent, and this was just a tragic accident. And if they had just hired a lawyer to defend this suit right away, they probably would have prevailed. But I don't know that, and neither do you, because they refused to participate in the process that's meant to separate the legitimate claims of negligence from those that aren't. If a defendant in a civil suit could just ignore it without consequences, few if any people injured or killed by a company's carelessness would ever be able to get justice.
     
    lowwall likes this.

Share This Page