Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[bsee65]

Nope....what am I supposed to say to my students? Hi, I know that you can get your scuba certification anywhere else in a weekend, but I want you to really know what you are doing before I dump you in 80 ft. of water in a 3 knot current. Therefore, I will require you to pay me what I'm worth for the time that I need for you to complete the minimum requirements in the water to build yourself up to diving in the area where you live or choose to dive. It's a great idea, but who is going to take the time to do it right if PADI allows for it to be done in a weekend? If I personally knew my students and wanted to do a personal favor, I would exend the class. But for the average instructor, it's never going to happen. PADI is wrong here. My personal training involved hours and hours of pool experience at depths of 20+ feet. I don't remember the actual depth, but it was the area where they did the college platform diving. I'm not saying that this is necessary, but I have encountered new divers who can barely swim. :-(

Sounds good to me as long as you advertise accordingly. Some people will go to the local dive shop and get a PADI speed cert, some will come to you to learn how to do it right. Some people get their beef fix from McDonalds, others will go to a steak house and pay a lot more for a better piece of beef. I don't see how diving instruction should be any different. No reason why you have to do three courses a week for twelve people at a time. Get your cert and then pick and choose students who want advanced training. You might even be able to offer an extra tutoring option to students who are going down the PADI conveyor belt to graduate them with stronger skills.

If diving professionally is your passion, don't limit yourself!

 

[jayjoans]

Have you ever dumped anyone in a 3 knot current? Ever been in one yourself? I would think not....if someone took new divers into a 3 knot current they would need to be held criminally responsible and I do not think their training agency and insurance provider would be backing them up on that one.

John

New divers (new does not mean "first" dive) are "dumped" into an average 1-2 knot current in Cozumel all day long. A 3 knot or much faster current is often the case along some of the walls and on some of the dives.

I see that you are a very experienced diver according to your profile, FAR more experienced than I am. I've been in a 3+ knot current more times than I can remember. I think it's likely that Amazz has been in some too, with over 1000 dives.


I must be missing something, I wouldn't consider putting a new diver into a 3 knot current requiring the DM to be arrested. I would assume that the DM knows the skills of the new diver and would assist the diver in making an informed decision.

 

[Riger]

If they want to dive and have health issues they are going to lie on that medical statement. Isn't really just like another liability release?

In that Bahama video, OMG are those two just kids? And to think PADI is certifieing 10 year olds.

Not to open a bag of worms but, what is a good PSI to leave a 100ft...1250? on a good day.

Individual conditions are going to influence the amount of air you should leave the bottom with and therefore the following information is based on me and my own tollerance for risk;

If I were ascending on a line from a popular location with moderate current (Thistlegorm Wreck) I would plan for delays on the line (due to crowding) and start up with at least 90 BAR (1300psi). In good conditions (fewer divers or no current) at the same location, I'd probably take that down to 70BAR (1000psi).

If the circumstances are excellent (shallow bottom 15m [50'], no current and good viz), I am usually happy to arrive at the surface with 20BAR (290psi). Anything less than that and I will be thinking about my dive and what got me to that low pressure.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[Splitlip]

Have you ever dumped anyone in a 3 knot current? Ever been in one yourself? I would think not....if someone took new divers into a 3 knot current they would need to be held criminally responsible and I do not think their training agency and insurance provider would be backing them up on that one.

John

LOL. Check your travel brochures.

Fact is when drift diving in a 3K current, the entire world is moving at that speed, Most of your drift diving destinations will have serious currents.

There is a learning curve and some skills to be mastered if you are only used to gearing up on picnic table and walking out or decending to a "platform".

 

[redacted]

Sounds good to me as long as you advertise accordingly. Some people will go to the local dive shop and get a PADI speed cert, some will come to you to learn how to do it right. Some people get their beef fix from McDonalds, others will go to a steak house and pay a lot more for a better piece of beef. I don't see how diving instruction should be any different. No reason why you have to do three courses a week for twelve people at a time. Get your cert and then pick and choose students who want advanced training. You might even be able to offer an extra tutoring option to students who are going down the PADI conveyor belt to graduate them with stronger skills.

If diving professionally is your passion, don't limit yourself!

For folks who already know their beef this is probably true. But for folks with a tight budget who have never tasted any part of a cow, you might not want to count on it. In the end, the c-card looks the same. If you really think otherwise, you might want to read some of MikeFerrara postings.

Sorry to have drifted off topic.

 

[stevejaz]

New divers (new does not mean "first" dive) are "dumped" into an average 1-2 knot current in Cozumel all day long. A 3 knot or much faster current is often the case along some of the walls and on some of the dives.

I see that you are a very experienced diver according to your profile, FAR more experienced than I am. I've been in a 3+ knot current more times than I can remember. I think it's likely that Amazz has been in some too, with over 1000 dives.


I must be missing something, I wouldn't consider putting a new diver into a 3 knot current requiring the DM to be arrested. I would assume that the DM knows the skills of the new diver and would assist the diver in making an informed decision.

Actually, my wife and I's first dive (a non-certified resort dive) was in Playa and a drift dive, not sure of how fast the current was, but there was definitely a pretty good current. I could stop to look at something but it was a decent effort swimming in to the current to maintain position. Never felt unsafe, bobbing on top of the water waiting for the water taxi was a bit difficult though

 

[mikerault]

Mod's, as interesting as this discussion is, I suggest that it has diverged radically from the topic and it is perhaps time to split it off and let it have a life of its own...

 

[jkaterenchuk]

LOL. Check your travel brochures.

Fact is when drift diving in a 3K current, the entire world is moving at that speed, Most of your drift diving destinations will have serious currents.

There is a learning curve and some skills to be mastered if you are only used to gearing up on picnic table and walking out or decending to a "platform".

No S#@t sherlock. We were talking about new divers or recently OW certified divers being dropped into a 3 kt current. I did not say its unsafe for an experienced diver to dive in 3kt current depending upon the type of dive. With new divers there are just too many issues and too much task loading and skills that are critical that they will not have mastered and hence too much a chance for problems. For example...entry and exit from the boat is much more challenging, at 3 kts mask flooding is much more an issue (how many stories do we need to read about new divers that panic when their mask is flooded). Even though you are moving with the current buddy contact requires more attention. Depending upon local dive customs someone in the buddy team might have to manage and carry a surface float so that boat can follow them, the divers might need to know how to deploy a smb (thats not on the OW course at least with PADI). If this is the first time they will be using air much quicker due to the adrenaline rush that comes with conditions like high current. And these do not even address if its a strong current on a wreck dive or reef dive which bring a whole new set of issues such as free ascent without reference.

Far too many potential problem for me to take a new diver into such conditions. They can build up to it over time starting with lower level currents and developing confidence there first. Just because some says they do it in places like Florida does not mean it right. Beside, I would still question doing it in a 3 kt current even in Florida. I have not seen any many boat captains off Ft Lauderdale or Key Largo that do not proceed cautiously when dropping even experienced divers into a 3 kt current.

 

[jkaterenchuk]

New divers (new does not mean "first" dive) are "dumped" into an average 1-2 knot current in Cozumel all day long. A 3 knot or much faster current is often the case along some of the walls and on some of the dives.

I see that you are a very experienced diver according to your profile, FAR more experienced than I am. I've been in a 3+ knot current more times than I can remember. I think it's likely that Amazz has been in some too, with over 1000 dives.


I must be missing something, I wouldn't consider putting a new diver into a 3 knot current requiring the DM to be arrested. I would assume that the DM knows the skills of the new diver and would assist the diver in making an informed decision.

I have been to Cozumel 4 times. I can only remember one dive in which I felt the current on the dive site was approaching 3 kts. However, this would be my guess based upon physical and visual cues and having been in 3 kt + before. I would not have an issue with experienced divers in 1 kt current in Cozumel with the local condition of very good visability and the DM managing the SMB. Even there I have seen many issues with buddy seperation because usually the DM has 8 plus divers and the many dive boats tend to go to the same sites and when one group from one boat drifts onto a group from another is a mess especially with new divers.

I would assume nothing about a DM's qualifications and capabilities. Did you miss the topic of this thread?

Other instructor can do as they wish but you will not find me taking any new divers I just certified or even have some dives under their belt directly into a 3 kt current.

John

 

[jkaterenchuk]

Are you challeging the veracity of her statement?... 3 kts is not uncommon there. I've dived in over 4 kts in that area.


Edit: he beat me to it...

Nope, I went back and corrected my post. I should not have used her in quote form to give that impression. I meant the question to be more generic in nature to an Instructor/DM.

John