Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[dmaziuk]

I just never liked the medical questions from non-medical people, for their liability, when I never query the guy dropping me off for a drift on Peleliu...Its one-sided and yet I am the paying customer. It is offensive.

You can now tell them that @tridacna's PADI contact assured us all the questions are optional and don't need to be answered if you're bringing page 2 signed by a doctor. I'm sure it'll satisfy everyone.

 

[Mrs. B]

You can now tell them that @tridacna's PADI contact assured us all the questions are optional and don't need to be answered if you're bringing page 2 signed by a doctor. I'm sure it'll satisfy everyone.

It is not going to happen because I am not willing to share and document personal medical information with a dive shop. Even flying has changed this year. It used to be just light sport planes < 1320 pounds with only DL, but now even your private pilots license has loosened way up because they realized it was overkill and hurting general aviation. (Medical Reform Law)

 

[dmaziuk]

There's no information on page 2 other than "I am a medical doctor and don't see any reason so-and-so could not dive".

 

[Mrs. B]

There's no information on page 2 other than "I am a medical doctor and don't see any reason so-and-so could not dive".

Some people will do that and some will just skip it and dive recreationally without the red tape of a dive shop and medical visits.

 

[dorkdiver]

Brick and mortar retail in general is a dying breed, it is no surprise that diving is following suit.

 

[tridacna]

Reminder: Med Form is only for students on courses. I doubt that PADI stores need it for anything else. Even for @Mrs. B

Also: Those forms will be disappearing in 2018 replaced with an on-line version. I wonder if they will allow no answers with a signed doc’s note?

And FTR @dmaziuk my contact at PADI is Adam W.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

OK, so second part of this discussion.
Part of the reason I started this thread was to get the attention of as many people on SB as I could. If I posted this in my regional section I would have gotten maybe 6 replies and the thread would have died. Now see, that's good marketing!

MDB, you probably already know this, but I'm going to explain why Northerm California is going to potentially see some big changes.
As some of you might know the state of CA closed abalone diving possibly for good. Many of the dive shops north of San Francisco depend heavily on abalone diving and all the gear sales, gear rentals, freediving classes etc that go along with everything to do with abalone diving. It was a seasonal sport that used to range from April 1st thru November 30th, with July closed. Last year they took one month off each end of the season to reduce take.
The reason they closed it is because of dwindling numbers, and not because of over harvesting, it was because of drastic changes to the environment that lead to the abalone starving. Massive kelp die offs and toxic algea blooms caused a whole domino effect of some bad things going on in the ocean and the result was a huge die off of sea stars first, then the kelp died off, then the urchins began to eat everything inluding any new kelp growth, as a result many areas turned into urchin barrens and the abalone are starving to death. There was also a toxic algea bloom a few years ago that caused a massive abalone die off.
After a lot of science they found that the numbers were below their threshhold for sustaining the species so they closed it. Such is life and I support the move, I think it was the right thing to do. I was a very low take diver anyway and would only get a few a year. I won't miss it.

So, the effects on our local dive shops will be big since abalone diving was a huge part of their income. Scuba diving has always been a small part of business here. I doubt they will be able to support their shops on scuba sales/classes/trips alone. The previous discussion of this thread outlines a decline in scuba related sales at brick and mortar shops already and they were feeling that phenomenon as well.
In my area, the two shops here *might* be able to sustain themselves but it's going to be tough. Up in Mendocino where there is one shop, probably not. They rely so heavily as an abalone diving tourist destination that most of their business will vaporize. I doubt they will be able to continue on a few air fills and kayak rentals. They may be able to turn their attention to the spearos and promote hunting fin fish, but that has potentioal to decimate an already stressed resource.
My LDS in Santa Rosa may have a chance because they decided to get into other stuff like surfing and other water sports activities. They are also gearing up to really start promoting scuba again. The new owner who worked there for years as an employee is pretty motivated to try some new things so we'll see. I really like the guy and have been in there a lot buying stuff. I also send a lot of people in there.
Down in Marin County I doubt they will feel this too much, and in Monterey not at all.

I know this is a regional issue centered around one part of the state, but it gives you an example of how fragile an economy can be in a local area. I know a lot of inns and campgrounds will also feel the drop in the seasonal business.
It would be like making cave diving in FL illegal, what would happen to all the shops and affiliated businesses in cave country?

Anyway, this is what we're going through.

 

[mdb]

OK, so second part of this discussion.
Part of the reason I started this thread was to get the attention of as many people on SB as I could. If I posted this in my regional section I would have gotten maybe 6 replies and the thread would have died. Now see, that's good marketing!

MDB, you probably already know this, but I'm going to explain why Northerm California is going to potentially see some big changes.
As some of you might know the state of CA closed abalone diving possibly for good. Many of the dive shops north of San Francisco depend heavily on abalone diving and all the gear sales, gear rentals, freediving classes etc that go along with everything to do with abalone diving. It was a seasonal sport that used to range from April 1st thru November 30th, with July closed. Last year they took one month off each end of the season to reduce take.
The reason they closed it is because of dwindling numbers, and not because of over harvesting, it was because of drastic changes to the environment that lead to the abalone starving. Massive kelp die offs and toxic algea blooms caused a whole domino effect of some bad things going on in the ocean and the result was a huge die off of sea stars first, then the kelp died off, then the urchins began to eat everything inluding any new kelp growth, as a result many areas turned into urchin barrens and the abalone are starving to death. There was also a toxic algea bloom a few years ago that caused a massive abalone die off.
After a lot of science they found that the numbers were below their threshhold for sustaining the species so they closed it. Such is life and I support the move, I think it was the right thing to do. I was a very low take diver anyway and would only get a few a year. I won't miss it.

So, the effects on our local dive shops will be big since abalone diving was a huge part of their income. Scuba diving has always been a small part of business here. I doubt they will be able to support their shops on scuba sales/classes/trips alone. The previous discussion of this thread outlines a decline in scuba related sales at brick and mortar shops already and they were feeling that phenomenon as well.
In my area, the two shops here *might* be able to sustain themselves but it's going to be tough. Up in Mendocino where there is one shop, probably not. They rely so heavily as an abalone diving tourist destination that most of their business will vaporize. I doubt they will be able to continue on a few air fills and kayak rentals. They may be able to turn their attention to the spearos and promote hunting fin fish, but that has potentioal to decimate an already stressed resource.
My LDS in Santa Rosa may have a chance because they decided to get into other stuff like surfing and other water sports activities. They are also gearing up to really start promoting scuba again. The new owner who worked there for years as an employee is pretty motivated to try some new things so we'll see. I really like the guy and have been in there a lot buying stuff. I also send a lot of people in there.
Down in Marin County I doubt they will feel this too much, and in Monterey not at all.

I know this is a regional issue centered around one part of the state, but it gives you an example of how fragile an economy can be in a local area. I know a lot of inns and campgrounds will also feel the drop in the seasonal business.
It would be like making cave diving in FL illegal, what would happen to all the shops and affiliated businesses in cave country?

Anyway, this is what we're going through.

Thank you for the reply Eric.

I think you are about spot on.

When Joe Ford closed the Pinnacles Novato Store I could sense that things were changing quite a bit.

Ken in Mendocino @ Sub-Surface Progression specialized in rentals to Ab divers, with wetsuits, floats, all the other gear.

I remember in SoCal when we could take Abalone on SCUBA. Limit was 4 a day.

It was part of the local culture to take only what you would actually eat. Of course a few did not, but most did.

Along point Loma there were so many Abalone tucked underneath the rocks, we would always measure them
before taking any. Taking only the largest.

Abalone dinner, with a nice salad and a bottle of White Wine. A real treat.

 

[StefinSB]

This is a very I very interesting discussion. In Santa Barbara we are basically down to one real Scuba store which reassembled more of a dump than a place where you wanted to spend your money. Interesting enough, the place just got bought by two guys that run stores in SoCal that seem genuinely convinced that with diving programs at UCSB, City College, and Westmont, the Aquatics dive boats stationed here we are an underserved market. I hope they are right.

 

[Mrs. B]

This is a very I very interesting discussion. In Santa Barbara we are basically down to one real Scuba store which reassembled more of a dump than a place where you wanted to spend your money. Interesting enough, the place just got bought by two guys that run stores in SoCal that seem genuinely convinced that with diving programs at UCSB, City College, and Westmont, the Aquatics dive boats stationed here we are an underserved market. I hope they are right.

Sometimes they can capture a real income stream with VA / gov tuition money through trade or community colleges

we see this with 141 flight schools as well: get somebody who knows the system to process their benefits, wash, rinse, repeat