Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[KevinNM]

That's not true in the UK.

A club is just a group of people who meet at a free place. Usually a pub. They will occasionally rent swimming pools - which are owned by the local council so who have to let the public use them. They then go to a quarry and do there open water dives. The kit they have is hugely discounted and will usually be a buddy commando bcd - these are fine and last forever. They also get grant money from the lottery here.

There running costs are very little. Each member pays a modest amount to keep it all running. They do not need to have the same levels of H&S as a commercial operation. The system works well actually.

There is no magic source of money in the US unless you are politically connected, and then it last until your sponsor loses and election or gets arrested.

Pools here are owned by the city and cost $45/hour to rent.

There is no discount on insurance. Look at the NSS-CDS, which lost a case when someone broke into one of their facilities, went diving without training or gear and died.

 

[tomfcrist]

I think the majority of failing dive shops are those that refuse to change the business model. The internet is here to stay...so start selling **** online. Start using social media effectively and find a specialty niche that you can exploit.

 

[Katie L]

This is an interesting thread as a new diver and an ecommerce professional. Retail in the US is going strong, but consumer habits are changing. Businesses must diversify and brick and mortars must understand that if they cannot offer a truly valuable in-person experience as well as a cost comparable to online shops, they are going to get left in the dust. There ARE great businesses that sustain brick and mortar as well as online shops, and it seems like the diving industry should be doing more of that. Starting a robust ecommerce biz is not necessarily a fun endeavor for someone at a mom and pop shop, and not everyone will stay in business, but who's to say that it can't be done? Business owners need to start thinking creatively and offer something that no one else does beyond simply discount pricing.

Many older "millennials" like myself (I'm 31) who should be the target demographic and should be gaining some disposable income and putting some money into long term hobbies like scuba pay hundreds of dollars in student loans every month on top of other expenses. I don't have the disposable income that my parents did at my age, when my dad started diving through our hometown dive shop. A $1000 gear package is simply not something I can afford since I also have to budget for opportunities to use it. I have a steady salaried job, and even though I have no kids, live with housemates, don't have cable TV, rent is SO HIGH in NYC, and storage space is low. Plus, at this point, what's the advantage of me owning my own equipment? If I can only afford to pay for one ultra-low-budget vacation OR a set of gear in a single year, I'm opting for a cheap plane ticket to a backpacker-friendly place somewhere warm where the dive shop will rent me all the gear and take me on a guided dive with a group of other young travelers so I can have fun and gain experience in a safe and educational environment....all of which I can arrange over the internet. Sure, I could shell out for equipment at the LDS and then shell out a few hundred to go on some local charter dives in the NYC area, and maybe I will some day, but then I'd have no vacation budget.

Honestly -- are there dive shops and locales in the continental US that offer a comparable experience and culture to something like Utila or Koh Tao? Where you can show up with no car, no gear, no $200/night hotel room, and stay in a modest hostel on site and watch a sunset from the dive shop bar/restaurant with other young travelers? I'm not even a big partier, but I so thoroughly enjoyed those experiences and their openness to beginners, and haven't given much serious thought to diving in Florida or North Carolina for my next trip, despite their relative accessibility, because I don't associate it with the same kind of travel that I am drawn to, especially as a solo traveler (my friends aren't divers). I know lot of the "cowboys" rag on the "dive factory" nature of the backpacker dive resorts, but those threads are full of people talking about how over commercialized the dive industry has gotten. It seems like there is a customer base ready and waiting to be courted. (I could be totally ignorant about the existing dive culture in Florida, California, NC, etc, so please forgive and correct me if I am wrong)

Edited to add: I'd love to be an adventurous diver one day, with more of a need to frequent my LDS, and I agree that OWS and AOW certs are not thorough prep compared to experience, but without their relative affordability and accessibility, I wouldn't be doing any diving at all.

 

[Katie L]

I think the majority of failing dive shops are those that refuse to change the business model. The internet is here to stay...so start selling **** online. Start using social media effectively and find a specialty niche that you can exploit.

YES re: social media. It's the perfect place to show off the amazing things that can be seen underwater. Dive shops should be spreading the word about what they can offer students/customers. Many of my friends -- who seem to show no active interest in diving -- follow Sea Legacy, Paul Nicklen, NatGeo, etc on Instagram and love to see underwater photography and videography. We live in a visual world. Show people how they can see that for themselves, right here in the US.

 

[drrich2]

Honestly -- are there dive shops and locales in the continental US that offer a comparable experience and culture to something like Utila or Koh Tao? Where you can show up with no car, no gear, no $200/night hotel room, and stay in a modest hostel on site and watch a sunset from the dive shop bar/restaurant with other young travelers?

Only coastal LDS locations could attempt it, and I imagine they'd be on expensive real estate (oceanfront) in an expensive region (e.g.: California). Probably not cost effective? Olympus Dive Center in Morehead City, NC, had a cheap dive lodge last I checked. I think you'd still need to rent a car.

Packing people into a hotel room can cut costs, if they're shared. If 2 people can share a bed, 4 to a room works.

Richard.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Dan @ DiveTech knows how to sell. My first time in there, I had been noodling on a Petrel 2 for about 6 months. He made offers we could not refuse, and my son and I each walked out with one. I am afraid every time I walk into his shop

He's only there to help!

 

[jmdive]

The price of equipment is costly. Most divers are of the warm water vacation type. Why purchase equipment when you have to pay fees for a second piece of luggage consisting of your equipment. I have heard that a few dive operations will provide dive equipment for you to use if you are diving with them for 5 days and above. Before anyone starts labelling me a miser, I own my full set of equipment and I consistently dive with the same dive operations during my warm water vacations. Being loyal to a certain dive operation may be why equipment is provided for free rental. Do you really need to buy equipment if this the type of diver that you are?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

YES re: social media. It's the perfect place to show off the amazing things that can be seen underwater. Dive shops should be spreading the word about what they can offer students/customers. Many of my friends -- who seem to show no active interest in diving -- follow Sea Legacy, Paul Nicklen, NatGeo, etc on Instagram and love to see underwater photography and videography. We live in a visual world. Show people how they can see that for themselves, right here in the US.

The only thing I see with social media i.e. Instagram for instance is once they see the underwater image they like it and move on. It's a visual generation for sure but I'm not necessarily seeing that transfering into a doing generation.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

What is the cause and what is the effect?

Are you saying that if people had to own their own compressors, they would enjoy scuba more, or is it that the tiny number of people willing to shell out thousands of dollars to own and maintain a compressor did so because they already enjoyed scuba?

As for me, that lower bar for entry to scuba that you mock was important. I had a vacation planned to Cozumel, and I cannot sit on a beach and tan, so I took a quick and inexpensive course on the theory that I would dive a couple of days on that vacation and possibly on future vacations to tropical locations. I was envisioning possibly 6 dives every few years at the most. If you had told me I would have had to take weeks of training, with mile swims, long training runs, and the other physical fitness requirements you have regularly promoted in threads over the years to be certified, I would have looked for some other way to spend my time. If you had told me I would need to own my own tanks and compressor, I would have laughed out loud.

My initial vision of occasional shallow dives in warm, tropical climes morphed into what I do now. In the past 10 months, my average pleasure (non-instructional) dive has been well over 200 feet deep, in water about 60 degrees. I think that is the kind of diving that you think would attract divers to the sport. In my case, it was just the opposite. I was attracted by the kind of diving you ridicule, and I very slowly changed into the diver I am now. I had to find out what scuba was really like before I could get the interest in taking it to where I am now.

The people I have known who have purchased their own compressors expressed that being free from dive shops was worth every penny.

As for the workouts I have promoted over the years, it makes sense to me that the most tangible fitness goals related to diving are the ones backed by lifeguard agencies, rescue swimmers, and other aquatic safety entities based upon contemporary science. DAN says, "Be fit for diving." What is "fit?" You don't need to be a Spartan racer or a triathlete to dive, but when divers reach rescue diver or pro levels it seems that meeting the minimum stamina and speed standards of professional open water rescuers is a doable goal for many divers. If the industry isn't going to make higher pro and rescue diver standards, I advocate for divers to take it upon themselves to rise to the challenge of the United States Lifesaving Association's fitness standards as the bullseye, but the USCG rescue swimmer standards as acceptable. USLA is 500 meter swim in 10 minutes and a 1 mile run on sand in 10 minutes. USCG wants 500 yards swam in 12 minutes, 50 push-ups in 2 minutes, 60 sit-ups in 2 minutes, 5 pull-ups, 5 chin-ups, 25 yard underwater breath hold swim and a 200 yard buddy tow. That doesn't seem like much considering the number of friends and students I know who do marathons, triathlons, tough mudders, and the like. Many kids can easily do this. It's us old farts who have to work at it.

I wanted to be a diver. As a 13 year old kid, I enrolled in what turned out to be a thorough old-fashioned military style class and loved every minute of it. Still do. That also took me to where I am now, made me money, saved me money, and maybe helped save a few lives. I never intended to get into deep tech or cave diving myself. The fitness aspect comes in handy more for shore dives and cave dives allowing longer range. In the St. Lawrence, I can dive half the wrecks we have for the cost of the air/gas fill most people pay charter boat fees to reach.

Couple of interesting links:

http://sobrasa.org/campeonato/matosinhos_2007/apresenta/Martinez C - P137.pdf

http://www.lifeguardstandards.org/pdf/USLSC_FINAL_APPROVAL_1-31-11.pdf

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Only coastal LDS locations could attempt it, and I imagine they'd be on expensive real estate (oceanfront) in an expensive region (e.g.: California). Probably not cost effective? Olympus Dive Center in Morehead City, NC, had a cheap dive lodge last I checked. I think you'd still need to rent a car.

Packing people into a hotel room can cut costs, if they're shared. If 2 people can share a bed, 4 to a room works.

Richard.

California dive boats.
Show up the night before, most let you stay on the boat for free the night before, boat will average about $135 a day including all meals and air, 3 to 4 dives a day. A two or three day trip is common. Sometimes a three day through the right club is less than $400 and many clubs gladly allow satelite members or outsiders to fill spots.
If people want value this is it.
All gear is BYO, or rent from a nearby dive shop. Boats do not rent any gear, however many will be glad to help visiting customers find a convenient source for any rental needs.