Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[2airishuman]

Precisely. I MAY take up tech diving at some point in my diving career; IF I ever start diving regularly.

The grand fallacy here is the idea that there exists a range of low-end to high-end gear that has different quality levels, features, and prices. In general, that isn't true for scuba gear, with the exception of DCs.

In that light, dive shops that push expensive gear are not selling gear that their customer may not yet be ready for. They are, instead, selling gear that is a poor value. Because a $135 mask and a $50 snorkel is no better than a $40 mask and a $25 snorkel.

 

[boulderjohn]

My limited experience with tech divers does not lead me to believe, as a rule, that they purchase (or recommend) expensive gear, except for DCs.

Precisely. I MAY take up tech diving at some point in my diving career; IF I ever start diving regularly.

I think what you more typically see advised by tech divers is to avoid buying something twice by making an original purchase that will serve both now and later. For example, I had a beginning tech diver a few years ago who complained that when he started diving, he bought a complete set of gear, and now that he had only been diving a bit over a year (but a busy year), he was looking to buy a whole new set because he realized that he had not bought the right stuff in the first place. He started to tell me what he had bought, but I stopped him and then told him the whole set he owned, with perfect accuracy. That is because the shop were he had bought it was one I mentioned earlier, the one I left when it adopted a number of changes, one of which was getting employees to promote specific models so that they would get the best possible profit margin.

Another characteristic of tech diver advice, in my experience, is telling people how to avoid paying more than they have to for necessary items. For example, I use two very fine tech computers on my dives, and their combined cost is about what you can pay for some recreational computers. Most tech divers recommend using a simple, bare SPG for a pressure gauge rather than more expensive alternatives used by many recreational divers. Most fins associated with tech diving are cheaper than some high end fins typical of recreational divers. With good advice, a new recreational diver can be outfitted in a full set of gear that can be later used in technical diving for a lot less than some full sets of purely recreational gear.

 

[Scuba-Blue-13]

I think what you more typically see advised by tech divers is to avoid buying something twice by making an original purchase that will serve both now and later.

While I COMPLETELY understand the "Don't buy it twice" mentality (keeping salt water aquariums for any length of time will teach you that) I'd prefer to have the OPTION of purchasing a "cheaper" model to start with. Every store I go in says "this is what you need" without actually listening to my wants, desires, diving style, frequency, etc. I feel they scare people away with enormous price tags up front.

I'd prefer a store say "Here's this $750 set up, you can get it now and never have to worry about upgrading, OR here is this $300 set-up to get you started but you MAY want to upgrade down the road in which case you'll spend more." My issue is that I'm not being given the option. I'm not even being given a choice in what brand I want to buy.

I believe every new diver has the same mentality "Now that I'm certified I'm going to dive all the time!!" and in reality - we don't. I believe part of the reason we don't is that it is incredibly expensive to get in to. Sure I can rent all of my gear, but how many posts are there on SB that reference "If my life depends on it, I own it". As a new diver I feel it's better to have my own stuff (as a toy whore I want to own as much stuff as possible). If I own it, feel I will be more likely to use it. If I can't afford to buy it, I may just move along to something else instead - like snorkeling.

 

[scubarobot]

2 things I see, the first is a number of shops closing and boats shutting down are run by people who are near retirement age so closing should be expected. What is important is not the closings it is the lack of openings that are concerning. The other major issue is the number of divers who stopped diving when they had kids. Diving is not kid / baby friendly and the demands placed on parents by society consume what little free time and money that is left.

 

[dmaziuk]

How much regulation does it require for private individuals to buy a compressor? Remember no one is making any money. It's just a group of friends sharing the cost of their hobby.

We have risk assesments which the pool provider insist on, and we have the BSAC third party insurance. We had to generate a fair bit of paper for a grant application which paid for 10 sets of kit (bought from our LDS).

Edit: my wife and I organize training for ourselves, book diving trips and buy gear. We can call ourselves "Our Own Sub-Aqua Club", I'm not quite seeing how that would make us a viable alternative to the plight of the US dive shops. Nor how my "OOSAC Level Max" certification would be recognized by any dive op.

 

[2airishuman]

While I COMPLETELY understand the "Don't buy it twice" mentality (keeping salt water aquariums for any length of time will teach you that) I'd prefer to have the OPTION of purchasing a "cheaper" model to start with. Every store I go in says "this is what you need" without actually listening to my wants, desires, diving style, frequency, etc. I feel they scare people away with enormous price tags up front.

I'd prefer a store say "Here's this $750 set up, you can get it now and never have to worry about upgrading, OR here is this $300 set-up to get you started but you MAY want to upgrade down the road in which case you'll spend more." My issue is that I'm not being given the option. I'm not even being given a choice in what brand I want to buy.

You don't get it. The cheap stuff doesn't have to be upgraded. It's just as good.

I believe every new diver has the same mentality "Now that I'm certified I'm going to dive all the time!!" and in reality - we don't. I believe part of the reason we don't is that it is incredibly expensive to get in to. Sure I can rent all of my gear, but how many posts are there on SB that reference "If my life depends on it, I own it". As a new diver I feel it's better to have my own stuff (as a toy whore I want to own as much stuff as possible). If I own it, feel I will be more likely to use it. If I can't afford to buy it, I may just move along to something else instead - like snorkeling.

2airishuman's list of activities that are generally more expensive than scuba diving:

1. Any kind of fishing that involves boats.
2. Having a dog.
3. Playing a musical instrument.
4. Golf
5. A health club membership
6. Photography
7. Motorcycles
8. Two six-packs a week
9. Racing cars.
10. Watching cable TV
11. Sport aviation
12. Anything involving horses
13. RVs
14. A second home

Scuba diving is really not, in the greater scheme of things, an expensive activity. The only thing that makes it expensive is travel to dive sites. If you can dive at home, you're just paying for air fills, and for some fairly inexpensive equipment that will, for the most part, last a lifetime.

And I think this is relevant to the current thread because I don't believe that the expense of diving is what is making it hard for the LDS.

One of the themes not yet explored in this thread is declining interest in cold-water shore dives, which I think used to be more popular. In my area, none of the local dive shops is serious about organizing local "fun" dives for established divers. I'm not sure if this is because the dive shops lost interest or because nobody likes to dive that way any more. I organize my own dives now but it took a while to get here.

 

[boulderjohn]

2airishuman's list of activities that are generally more expensive than scuba diving:

One of my non-diving sons spent this past evening planning his white water rafting options for the year. The rafts, kayaks, etc. he owns for this cost lots more than most expert divers have spent on their equipment, and if everything goes well with the lotteries he is entering to get himself, his family and friends permits for the trips, he will get in 3 trips this year. That's it.

My other non-diving son does not fish, but he sure enjoys water skiing and other activities with his motorboat, and you can be sure everything associated with that costs more than most people would think of paying for scuba.

 

[Scuba-Blue-13]

You don't get it. The cheap stuff doesn't have to be upgraded. It's just as good.

But this just reinforces my opinion. I tell the dive shop I'm on a budget and even express my opinion about 2 other shops immediately offering me $750 set-ups and they IMMEDIATELY offer me a $700 set-up after telling me I'm right I don't need a $750 set.

Instead of trying to make a bunch of money from a customer all at one, make SOME money from them upfront so they'll come back and you can make more off of them over the long run (on extras, service, trips, etc.).

 

[ystrout]

The shops that are more of brick and mortar shops, rather than "dive centers", are doing it to themselves by not being adaptive to today's market.

I would THINK that most shops should be focusing on their services, rather than products. In an industry like scuba diving, Amazon, leisure pro, or any other online platform will beat you time and time again. Reading reviews from 200 people before buying a regulator is way more trustworthy than listening to a salesman pitching the most expensive/highest margin product. And don't forget the convenience and return policies....

There's a huge market of potential untapped divers, which is the younger crowd. I'm 24, and my girlfriend and I love to dive (we live in San Diego). But none of our friend do it and I only know a few random other people my age that dive. So target us.... Make your stores newbie friendly, focus on getting us young people certified and having us rent from you. Then after we get into the hobby, we'll buy from you when renting/returning gear. You won't lose your legacy business (experienced divers who come in for products and air fills), they'll probably like the exciting changes.

 

[markmud]

The shops that are more of brick and mortar shops, rather than "dive centers", are doing it to themselves by not being adaptive to today's market.

I would THINK that most shops should be focusing on their services, rather than products. In an industry like scuba diving, Amazon, leisure pro, or any other online platform will beat you time and time again. Reading reviews from 200 people before buying a regulator is way more trustworthy than listening to a salesman pitching the most expensive/highest margin product. And don't forget the convenience and return policies....

There's a huge market of potential untapped divers, which is the younger crowd. I'm 24, and my girlfriend and I love to dive (we live in San Diego). But none of our friend do it and I only know a few random other people my age that dive. So target us.... Make your stores newbie friendly, focus on getting us young people certified and having us rent from you. Then after we get into the hobby, we'll buy from you when renting/returning gear. You won't lose your legacy business (experienced divers who come in for products and air fills), they'll probably like the exciting changes.

Hi ystrout,

I have been involved with pelagic sport fishing, yacht clubs, three-event waterski clubs, and other things. The social aspect is what keeps people interested and returning. The comradery of being involved in an avocation with people who are also sharing your specific adventures is addicting and fun.

Are you referring to what I am calling "the social aspect" that seems to be missing in many LDS environments?

Thanks,

markm
PS: I have been involved with a shop that strives to marry the social aspect and diving aspect together. They are the most successful dive shop in Northern California. And they have a thriving worldwide on-line business.