Bitterness of Scuba Instructors

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My tip off with that instructor should have been in his shop prior to classes where he pretty much bashed anyone else in the industry.

Ok now I have my home shop I affiliate with and its an awesome shop. The owner is a former Navy Seal and is die Hard Scuba. His staff make scuba diving fun and one of the instructors named Tommy has been instrumental in so many divers going ahead with their career. He makes it fun for the classes and has humor when needed and seriousness when needed. I think he is probably the instructor I would refer all people asking to learn to just because no one to my knowledge has ever said a bad word about him. Plus his knowledge of diving as PDS is outstanding.

Aside from home LDS I wanted to really comment on one shop I am amazing impressed with and wanted to give kudos to based on your above comment. I went in to Blue Water Divers in Oklahoma City back fresh from a dive away from the mainland. Though I usually try to never bash a dive shop I really was not happy with the one I had dealt with and was ranting a little about it. The manager there was smiling and never said a bad word just listened intently and gave positive notes and solutions to my less then content thoughts. I was sold on it as one of my love to occasionally visit dive shops for things my LDS does not sale.

Your right though bitterness shows through and many people hear you say "XYZ divers are aweful and they should be put out of business" and they never hear another word. It cost a sale and they do put the word out. When you say "XYZ divers is another shop you can try but here is what I can offer...." it does alot better to persuade people.
 
This has been a fascinating thread, and became about much more than just one guy's question. I'm glad it came into being, if only because it let me see more sides to the people here :)

Maybe Matt doesn't want to get pulled back in to this thread anymore. Some of the comments have been a little ad-hominem, being more about him than the issue. I'd understand if that made him want to disengage, given that his preferred way of interacting seems to be a gentle one. Perhaps the same buttons that were pushed to create the thread got pushed again during the thread. If so, it's unfortunate, because the vast majority of people here have been super thoughtful.

If you are still reading, though, Matt, I'd be interested to know: what were you hoping to achieve when you made your original post? Do you feel it was achieved? What did you learn?
 
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I think people who see LEO's in a negative light are probably criminals.

Ok just caught this one and I know I am rehashing an old debate but I just got to correct this one......

Criminals definately see LEOs in a bad light but they are not the only ones. Law biding citizens sometimes do to but not by choice. Sometimes its instilled in to them to fear a LEO. Have you ever seen a child misbehave and the parents would say "You better be good or he will take you to jail?" Many times this scares a child so bad because we have also told them stories of how bad jail is and how mean evil people go there. Then we scare them into thinking they will go to jail. There are those who never shake that fear as they get older.

Even I myself as a LEO get nervous when out of town in a place I am not familiar with and get pulled over. Its because of when I was little and mom and dad would be speeding along and get pulled over they always spouted "Sit down Im getting pulled over. Put your seat belt on or we will get a ticket. Kind of paints a picture to a kid that a cop is someone who is like a God or something that has the power to smash the child down should he decide to do so.

How many people do you think saw the LEOS in L. A. as being a great department after they beat up Rodney King? Do you think the black community praised them for that? It caused a wide spread fear to the black community that the police were out of control and would assault them for everything. Yes it was only a small handful of officers but the fallout was felt all across America as people of all races realized that police beatings were not just myth but instead right there on their video screens.

A police Officer is not someone who is seen by all as a titan waiting to do battle for good but also by some who still have child hood fears of being beaten to a pulp or thrown in jail for just looking at the officer the wrong way. Despite the popular myths of minorities being victimized just by their race the fact is most officers are good people. Most look past the color of the skin though there are still some that dont. If you just politely speak with them and dont bash them or give an attitude youll find most of them really dont want to go to traffic court. It screws up their day so warnings are a blessing to both you and the officer. Dont pop off your pulling me over because of my race. Just say I am sorry for what I did wrong and I should have known better sir/ma'am and most times they will run your name and see you are not a bad person and give you a warning. (Unless they give you one daily lol)

So you see its not just criminals who see us as bad. Sometimes its childhood fears. Sometimes its the public who sees a bad incident on t.v. and assumes and entire department is the way one guy on television is.
 
I still get nervous when I'm randomly pulled over even though I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, I think it's like the innate fear of sharks some people feel. Like all people in all walks of of life there are some very nice police and some right w..kers.
 
I remember when i was a helicopter flight instructor being extremely stressed beyond beliefe by either student or other variables. I do admit sometimes taking it out on the student if there was an immediate danger i.e. panicking and letting go of the controls or failing to do an action they had previously done. Everyone gets stressed and expresses it in different ways, some better than others. Ive known people who are in industrys just for the money and hate it and those who are in industry for the love of it. I never took anything personal while i was in flight training or commercial dive school and I would let my students know the same thing, if I yell at you becuase you messed up chances are you came close to killing us so learn from your mistake and dont do it again.
 
Until I started participating on the Scuba Board forum, I was unaware that there was this pervasive bitterness on the part of scuba instructors toward their students.

There seems to be hostility toward incompetence, a sort of arrogance, among many of the posters here. Most of the instructors on this forum are as nice as could be, but many seem to have a certain resentment or hostility, for some reason.

Any idea where this comes from?

I wonder if it has to do with their clientele making more money than they do. I understand that scuba instruction is not very well compensated, whereas the expenses associated with scuba diving make it a sport more likely to be practiced by those with comfortable incomes.

Matt, I know what you're talking about. This is my personal opinion, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but I've come across instructors like this..who have nothing but resentment and bitterness about their job and towards their students.

I don't think it has anything to do with the years of teaching. I've seen people who've been teaching diving for more than a decade who are still jolly and excited as can be.

I think it has more to do with the person's mental constitution than anything else. I once worked with an instructor like this...who was always bitter. He'd always complain about going out to dive, and was the last one to go into the water. He'd always create excuses to not go diving. And he was the so-called "Base leader" of our dive center.

Needless to say, he also say extremely racist things against the guests and the other instructors, including myself. He was just an awful person to be around. The other instructors and I agreed that if you start to hate what you're doing - diving or teaching people how to dive - then it's best looking into another job. But for this certain instructor, this was all he knew. He hadn't worked outside the scuba industry, and I don't believe he had much options, if any, so knowing this limitation made him bitter. Plus, he was a horrible person to begin with.

So bottom line is...I think it depends on the type of person you are. Those who are mature, intelligent, and amiable tend to thrive in whatever they are doing - be it teaching, diving, or other jobs outside of the scuba industry, whereas the pessimistic downers are always going to complain and try and bring people down no matter what they do. I think it's more apparent with scuba instructors because you end up spending so much time with them day in and day out, that you end up seeing them for what they really are.

At least, that's my 2 cents.

:D
 
I just counted my certification cards and I've had nine scuba instructors not including assistants and DMs. None of them were bitter and most were full-time scuba instructor professionals. I'm working with four other instructors now and they all have other full-time jobs and they aren't bitter either. Most of them, however, have a rough sense of humor but they were/are all fun to be around.

I'll never forget my first OW instructor, Rafael San Millan. He was very tough, teaching the old PADI class in 1978 which included many weeks of gear exchanges, buddy breathing, rescue, CPR and dive planning. Half the class was very comfortable in the water so he gave us problems to work on, under supervision of an AI, while he worked with the folks who weren't as comfortable. I feel that most of my PADI classes since then have been a review of that first class. My current DM instructor is old school who doesn't have former students, he has disciples. Many travel with him regularly and/or show up at the pool to get wet or to help. I feel fortunate to have been accepted into his DM program.

There are bitter people everywhere but I've seen far more bitter IT professionals than scuba diving professionals. In fact, I'm probably a bitter IT professional working on my anti-bitter exit plan - a scuba diving professional.
 
My answer is the same one I gave in another forum, http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/414297-newbies-worthless-6.html), so I will basically just copy/paste my answer. Don't know if that is against etiquette to do that, but here it is if you are interested in my 2cents.

I have been diving for 5 years now, and still consider myself a newbie. In the past 2 years I have spent a lot more time in dive shops hanging around dive professionals, and I can see there are some big egos out there. I have often wondered if scuba somehow attracts people like this, but then I have decided no, I think it is more of a natural psychological reaction to sharing the same interest with so many people which sparks feelings of competitiveness and also insecurity (at the realization that they are not as unique as they thought they were). Someone who has dedicated a lot of time and energy to become something, and places a lot of weight on their identity as this or that profession, will naturally feel a little bit threatened by others who are doing or have done the same as them. I have seen this with professionals, academics, and even travellers. Take a look at the lonely planet forum, it is full of big egos that are always trying to one up other traveller's experiences and rip into posters who dare comment about something that don't know as much as he/she does about a certain topic.

As far as diving goes, I see it more with dive professionals working in the industry, rather than just experienced recreational divers. I have experienced a lot of cliquey snobbery towards less experienced divers in the diving community. If you are just a student recreational diver, they are more than happy to help, but then once you start talking about taking your diving to the pro level, some divers seem to give the attitude. In many ways I think it is a territorial thing. Let's face it, there are a lot of people out there that want to work in the dive industry, but there is a limited amount of jobs, and it is very easy to get certified to become a dive professional. I think it ticks some of the more experienced professionals off that they are considered in the same league professionally, and have to possibly compete for jobs with people who are not as experienced as themselves. I can understand this because I have experienced something similar myself. Years ago, I studied to be a yoga teacher. After taking my personal practice very seriously for many years, I went away to an ashram and spent months training to be a teacher. Afterwards, I came to my hometown and the most recent yoga craze hit and brought all kinds of new teachers onto the scene. Nothing wrong with a little bit of healthy competition, however, I was bothered when I found out that all the new teachers in my area had been certified by a weekend course offered by a travelling van! It was hard to stay humble and to not feel a sense of superiority and criticism towards the others, and I did my best to contain my ego (like a good yogi!). Now that I am older and have given up teaching, I feel a bit silly for feeling threatened by other people who were pursuing the same goals as me, but I also know that this is a natural reaction for normal human beings. It happens to people pursuing anything, professions, hobbies, academics. We need to prove our worthiness, and sometimes for some people, that translates into criticizing the expertise, opinions, or experiences of others so that we can keep ourselves on our pedestals.

Also, we have to keep in mind that people say things online that they would word differently in person. It is so easy to be snarky on a forum because you can maintain distance and (to a certain point) anonymity. I also think it is worth pointing out that sometimes words come out wrong in writing. Without facial expressions, tones of voice, body language, etc. to accompany our words, sometimes they can come across as harsh even if they were meant to come across as something else, like concern, for example, as Jax said.

We all have our stories to share, and we all have the right to express our opinions, whether harsh or gentle, that is what these forums are for. My advice to newbies is not to take it personally, and just to remind yourself when people are being harsh with you, it is either out of concern or ego. If its concern, feel grateful for them, if it is ego, feel sorry for them.
 
My advice to newbies is not to take it personally,
I give the opposite advice. Please take criticism personally and morph bad habits into good ones. You can't change or evolve unless people are candid and demand the best out of you. That's not always pleasant but it can always be a positive growth experience. Sure, there are a few people and posters who get a charge out of zinging others and watching them squirm. You can still learn from them. That's advice not only for the newbies but for the seasoned instructors as well. If people are saying your delivery stinks, you have at least two options: 1) develop a better than thou attitude and stay the same or 2) learn from your critics and become better than you currently are. If you can't learn effectively, odds are you can't teach effectively either. The choice to improve is yours and yours alone.
 

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