Boat Captain's rules or your own safety?

[idocsteve]

I'm still steamed at a conversation I had earlier today with Captain Howard of the Eagle's Nest dive boat off of Long Island NY.

As a result of our "disagreement" I am no longer welcome aboard his boat, although he softened up at the end of our "chat" and said "if you follow my directions then you can come on our trips but since you have a problem doing so then I suggest you dive elsewhere".

I go into a whole bunch of detail on This thread but it's a long read.

Quick summary:

The Eagle's nest has a closed rung ladder (as opposed to a "T ladder" with open ends) and divers are required per his policy to board the ladder "fins on". Their in water buddies are not permitted to help them in any way , because according to the Captain, if you're underneath a diver who is on the ladder you place yourself in danger should they fall or if their tank comes loose.

We had just surfaced following dive #1, which was my girlfriend's first Northeast dive trip. She was having a lot of difficulty boarding the ladder and I moved in, and while underneath her but to one side while holding the edge of the ladder I started to guide her fins between the rungs, at which point I was commanded to "STOP AND BACK AWAY FROM THE LADDER!"

She finally made it on board with a bit of a struggle. Afterwards I told the captain that she needed my assistance and as her dive buddy it's my responsibility to help her. He said it's his boat, his rules, I refuse to follow them and ultimately I was advised that I am no longer invited on his dive boat.

As an aside, he also mentioned that he was going to disallow me from future dive boat trips following an incident last summer, the only dive I had scheduled with him because he tends to go to the same boring wreck called the Iberia. That particular day he had a different wreck site on the block and it was one I wanted to dive. I signed up, showed up at 6 am and was then advised the dive site was changed due to "reported poor visibility on the destination wreck". The new dive site was the Iberia. I advised him I was no longer interested in doing the dive and I left. He said that was enough for him to take me off his list but he "gave me another chance".

Comments welcome..

 

[redacted]

Getting behind and below someone climbing a ladder in scuba gear is dangerous and I agree with the Captains rule on that. I don't climb ladder with fins on my feet. If I know of such a stupid rule, I'll probably avoid that operation unless they have a real good explanation of why that is smart.

The only reason I can see for such a rule is he would rather avoid the problem of divers losing fins even if it involves a less safe practice. But his reasoning would be welcome.

 

[Big John]

Rule 1: The Captain is always right.
Rule 2: If the Capt. is wrong, refer to rule 1.

The Capt is the ultimate authority on HIS vessel. His boat his rules and if you don't like them you can go pound sand.

That said there is probably a good reason for his hard and fast rule. More than likely due to a past accident.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Steve, I agree it's a bad idea to be underneath a diver climbing a ladder. But just out of curiousity I would like to hear what the Captain's reason was for climbing the ladder with fins on. Also, did most of the other divers climb the ladder without any problems?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

He doesn't like you... you don't like him?

Go to a different boat, I don't see the problem?



Are you looking for someone to pat you on the back and say, "you're right"?





I'm guessing he wants fins on, incase you fall back in the water and the current gets ahold of you... PITA to swim without fins, while in dive gear.

His boat, his rules, no matter who is 'right', on his boat, you're wrong by breaking his rules.







If boarding a boat with fins on was that detrimental to my safety, I'd think twice about boat diving.

 

[Rainer]

Fins on with a closed rung ladder could result in serious leg injury if you slipped. Why he doesn't go to an open ladder, like almost every other NE boat, is beyond me. Stupid.

Fins on with the right ladder, though, isn't a problem and certainly would help if falling off in strong surface current (often the case in the NE).

Of course, his rules, so I'd just suggest finding a new boat. Sounds like he just hits the same wreck over and over anyway.

 

[idocsteve]

Steve, I agree it's a bad idea to be underneath a diver climbing a ladder. But just out of curiousity I would like to hear what the Captain's reason was for climbing the ladder with fins on. Also, did most of the other divers climb the ladder without any problems?

It's standard procedure on most if not all Northeast dive boats to board the ladder with fins on because conditions tend to be rough and it's more dangerous for the diver to be hanging on the ladder removing their fins and risk getting a skull fracture from the heaving ladder or stern of the boat, as well as the possibility of falling back in the water and losing your fins from your grasp or from where they might be hanging on your wrist.

However this dive boat is the only one I know of with a closed rung ladder.

Yes, I have experienced several divers having trouble boarding this ladder, including a diver who exited the water ahead of us on that day.

He doesn't like you... you don't like him?

Go to a different boat, I don't see the problem?

I'm going to do that. As I said on one of these threads he tends to go to the same wreck all the time. It's not about being excluded from his boat it's about "rules and policy" as well as my need to vent.

Are you looking for someone to pat you on the back and say, "you're right"?

Either pat me on the back and tell me I'm right or tell me I'm wrong and give a good reason for why you think so.

 

[DBailey]

Fins on with a closed rung ladder could result in serious leg injury if you slipped. Why he doesn't go to an open ladder, like almost every other NE boat, is beyond me. Stupid.

Fins on with the right ladder, though, isn't a problem and certainly would help if falling off in strong surface current (often the case in the NE).

Of course, his rules, so I'd just suggest finding a new boat. Sounds like he just hits the same wreck over and over anyway.

I agree with the general comment about the ladder; however, I can't really comment until I see the ladder. I have never come across a closed ladder that allows for ease of use with fins on, but I have not seen every ladder out there.

Back to the OP, plain and simple, you made two mistakes:

#1 - You broke the captain's rule about the ladder.
#2 - You tried to justify your actions to the captain.

Even if you still did #1, it is still better just to apologize to the captain and drop it instead of #2.

Now, by the title of the thread, I thought you were going to be discussing some real safety issue instead of ladder usage.

 

[idocsteve]

I agree with the general comment about the ladder; however, I can't really comment until I see the ladder. I have never come across a closed ladder that allows for ease of use with fins on, but I have not seen every ladder out there.

I checked the website and there is a photo of the boat but the ladder is not visible.

Someone posted a picture of the Eagle's Nest dive boat that shows part of the ladder on the other thread I started that relates to this topic, you can find it HERE

Back to the OP, plain and simple, you made two mistakes:

#1 - You broke the captain's rule about the ladder.
#2 - You tried to justify your actions to the captain.

Even if you still did #1, it is still better just to apologize to the captain and drop it instead of #2.

Ok, thanks for the feedback, I see your point.

 

[Doc]

His boat, his rules.

Assisting a ladder from below? There is a very specific method and process for doing this, but not without training and precise compliance~ it's still kind-of twitchy if the boat is bouncng.

For weaker divers, here's a suggestion that works well....

Tie a 7' lenth of 3/4" nylon strap by looping it to the tank nipple. Have a hand loop on the free end. Advise the boatsman in advance that you will be handing them this free end. They will use it to assist your balance and aid in your climb. (Tuck it inside a pocket while diving)

The flippers on a closed rung ladder thing makes no sense (from my vanatage here at the computer), but refer to my opening line for further instructions.