BP/W and warm water trim issues

[jwllorens]

My current setup consists of a steel backplate and doughnut style 25lb wing. I use weight pockets on the waist straps of the backplate harness so that I can travel and easily throw in a couple of lbs for salt water on the boat. In the pool, I use no additional weight, though I intend to wear a weight belt in the future for teaching purposes as it is prudent and advised by my instructors that my gear match the open water student's rentals as closely as possible for demonstration purposes.

On my feet, I wear 3mm neo socks and Chuck Taylors with Hollis F1 fins. My cheap wetsuit was trashed by the chlorine while doing weekly pool maintenance, and I said screw it and haven't bought another because all my dives are currently shallow and warm right now anyways, so I intend to dive with no exposure protection (aside from a 5mm hood which I use to protect my hair from chlorine and currently to protect my earplug from being dislodged since I have a hole in my eardrum) for a while.

The problem is that I am foot heavy and must keep my fins in constant motion to maintain trim while hovering, even when maintaining a 90° bend at my knees. Ditching all weight at the hips helps a litttle but I am still foot heavy, and I will need to exacerbate the problem and wear at least a pound or two on my hips in the future.

Are there any options to bring my head down besides the awkward velcro-on trim weight pockets that would probably screw with how clean my inflator hose assembly routs? Is there something I can bolt on to the backplate up at the top or something like that?

I plan to transition into coldwater technical diving in the future, and I am dead set on it, so I am trying to make all of my gear purchases work with that in mind so that I can minimize what I will have to replace, but trimming out in gear that seems to expect that I am wearing a drysuit is difficult, so I am looking for a cheap simple and clean solution that will carry me through the next couple of years of diving in the carib.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Before trim you need to consider total weighting.

No wetsuit + Stainless Steelplate + reg would overweight most divers.

I always recommend dialing in the total weighting *before* tying to move it around for best trim.

Tobin

 

[NateS]

I've read about people being annoyed that the Scubapro Seawing Nova fins are buoyant enough they do their safety stop upside down. Might even you out!

 

[RJP]

Are you almost hitting your head on your tank valve? If not, your tank is too low.

Also, get your hands out in front of you... helps move your center of gravity more in line with your center of buoyancy.

PS - wear neoprene booties, and consider a 3mm wetsuit.

---------- Post added September 11th, 2015 at 10:39 PM ----------

I've read about people being annoyed that the Scubapro Seawing Nova fins are buoyant enough they do their safety stop upside down. Might even you out!

 

[The Laconic]

I have the exact same problem, so if you manage to solve it, I'd like to hear what you did. I can't get my feet to "shut up". If I force myself to stop, down go my feet and up goes my head. It's my single biggest challenge at this point of my development.

I feel like I need to get into a pool for about an hour and just experiment with some things. Maybe move the tank up or down and see what that does, try moving some weight from the hips to trim pockets.

But one thing I'm reasonably sure of is that the F1s are not helping. Try some neutral fins if you can borrow some. During Fundies an intern lent me his Poseidons, and although it didn't solve the problem by itself, I think it helped (and they're also better for reverse kicks). I picked up some Slipstreams after that, but haven't had a chance to try them yet.

PS This is my situation in a 5m wetsuit, AL backplate, F1s, weight in pockets. Arms stretched out, and I've tried bringing my heels as far into my butt as possible, which neither helps nor is sustainable. Everything might be better for me in a drysuit with steel plate--something which I will be able to confirm in a few days.

 

[eelnoraa]

I went though the exact same problem before. Assuming your prosture is correct. Here is what I suggest.
1) Change to F1 fins to something lighter, neutral fins. I switched to OMS slip steam. You may also want to look at DiveRite
2) Change SS plate to AL. Then put weight pockets on upper camband. 4lb on upper camband can make a huge difference.

These two things solved my problem.

 

[The Laconic]

I went though the exact same problem before. Assuming your prosture is correct. Here is what I suggest.
1) Change to F1 fins to something lighter, neutral fins. I switched to OMS slip steam. You may also want to look at DiveRite
2) Change SS plate to AL. Then put weight pockets on upper camband. 4lb on upper camband can make a huge difference.

I think I was on the right track!

 

[jwllorens]

If I strain to move my head back, I hit the regulator. I already adjusted the shoulder straps to drop the tank a little and I believe it is in the right position now. It is not too low.

I am not over weighted in my current setup. With an almost empty AL-80, which is what I use when working, I am almost perfectly neutral if not slightly bouyant at 15ft. In fact, this was the case in the pool even when wearing a 3mm wetsuit which I recently threw in the garbage because it had been destroyed, though I often use every bit of air while working in the pool for efficiency, so the tank ends up completely empty rather than having several hundred PSI like it would on a real dive. This of course makes me a bit lighter at the end of a dive than I would be on a "real dive."

I wont use a wetsuit in the pool, because the chlorine destroys the outer fibers so quickly (and the neoprene rubs through immediately once that is gone) that it would be a complete waste of money. I don't need it for thermal protection in the pool since it is warm, so I would be buying a wetsuit that may last for less than a year (the last one was gone after 5 months of working in the pool and it was brand new) just to solve a trim issue. That seems like an expensive fix. For the ocean, a wetsuit is obviously ideal and I will be sure to have one when I start doing real dives again. I do miss the neoprene on my legs because it helped with trim.

I keep my hands out in front while in the pool. This prevents me from catapulting into an upright position, but I still have to fin to remain trim.

The Chucks are intended to "emulate" drysuit boots for fin-fitting purposes. They add a lb or two on each foot, but there is also 3mm neoprene on each foot too. I also get enough compliments on them that I would be very sad if the solution was to go back to the neo booties (which were also destroyed in short order by the chlorine.)



In short, neoprene and chlorine do not mix well, so I am looking for an alternate solution. In a month of work, black neoprene turns white on the fabric. In 3 months, the fabric breaks down and begins to come off in tiny pieces. In 5 months, the fabric is gone and things like nylon crotch straps or fin straps tear through the exposed neoprene like a circular saw.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I am not over weighted in my current setup. With an almost empty AL-80, which is what I use when working, I am almost perfectly neutral if not slightly bouyant at 15ft.

Stainless plate and harness ~-6lbs

Regulator ~ -2 lbs

Al 80 @ 500 psi ~ +3

Are you + 5 lbs in your swimsuit?


Tobin

 

[Macan]

Rule out the usual suspects:

1. Overweight --> what you think is the right weighting is usually not. Not breathing normally during checks will give a false sense of correct weighting.

2. Wrong Fin Buoyancy --> get fins with the appropriate buoyancy to help trim you out.

3. Too much weights forward --> will actually cause feet down and excessive BCD usage that aggravates the feet down problem.

4. Tank too low --> move it up until head slightly touches the 1st stage when tilted back.

5. Incorrect Center of Gravity --> position arms, legs, head to move COG to achieve desired trim. Head up, knees up is the optimal form.

6. Incorrect weights on waist positioning --> more weights closer to belly button will raise legs vs more weights in the back of the waist will lower legs.

I think your issue is #1 with #2 as a contributing factor. Unless I'm missing something and there's something else in the mix, It is unlikely that you're neutral at 15 ffw with swimsuit, empty BCD, steel backplate, negative F1 fins, while breathing normally. I think you're overweighted and that's causing the problem.