BP/W - APEKS vs Oxycheq

BP/W - APEKS vs Oxycheq

  • Oxycheq

    Votes: 18 62.1%
  • Apeks

    Votes: 11 37.9%

  • Total voters
    29

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Halcyon is not bad. But from a value perspective, it is a bit overpriced.
I must disagree with this statement. I have used Halcyon products for almost 20 years with no issues whatsoever. I've found the Halcyon products I've owned to be an excellent value. Perhaps more expensive initially, but, in my experience, the quality and longevity are unsurpassed.
 
I travel extensively and have for many years.On single tank trips, I use the OMS AL (any will do I just got a very good deal on several). I have used DSS, a few other wings and the Oxycheq. (I use the Apeks SM rig for SM) My gear gets really beat, pack it right and the Oxycheq wing will pack in ok, a lot of third world places are very uptight about bag weight (I've had to get on the scale with my bag in some places) .A little Aquaseal in the wing if it gets a hard pinch will keep it going for years. I had an early DSS wing and the elbow broke, shipping it from Asia to have it replaced was more trouble(and cost) than it was worth. Tobin may now be using a different construction method today so it's not a knock on his line, but it has made me leery of anything non-standard.
I needed to put together a rig for a good friend, my first consideration was quality of service in the water, second was keeping the overall rig weight down. I built exactly what I already use as it is travel tested and has a lot of hard use on it. If you travel to a lot of places where if your gear fails you may be out of the water for a while, and if you hate paying extra weight costs; what you are proposing in your OP will give you good service. Give the Apeks wing a pass, the design is not great and parts can be awkward. Use any Al plate you like, and keep your rig minimized mine comes in at 19KG (funny that's just under what most airlines allow or charge you for).
 
I must disagree with this statement. I have used Halcyon products for almost 20 years with no issues whatsoever. I've found the Halcyon products I've owned to be an excellent value. Perhaps more expensive initially, but, in my experience, the quality and longevity are unsurpassed.
We can agree to disagree. Halcyon makes great products. But after taking apart the BP/Wing of Oxycheq, Apeks, DR, Hollis, and Halcyon to compare/analyze the build/functionality, my opinion is that Halcyon is a bit overpriced. I agree with you on the long-term cost/performance value ratio and look at the purchase in a longer term value horizon as oppose to initial cost. But I also believe an Oxycheq/Apeks/DSS rig will also provide the longevity of an Halcyon. But thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. Much appreciated!
 
I travel extensively and have for many years.On single tank trips, I use the OMS AL (any will do I just got a very good deal on several). I have used DSS, a few other wings and the Oxycheq. (I use the Apeks SM rig for SM) My gear gets really beat, pack it right and the Oxycheq wing will pack in ok, a lot of third world places are very uptight about bag weight (I've had to get on the scale with my bag in some places) .A little Aquaseal in the wing if it gets a hard pinch will keep it going for years. I had an early DSS wing and the elbow broke, shipping it from Asia to have it replaced was more trouble(and cost) than it was worth. Tobin may now be using a different construction method today so it's not a knock on his line, but it has made me leery of anything non-standard.
I needed to put together a rig for a good friend, my first consideration was quality of service in the water, second was keeping the overall rig weight down. I built exactly what I already use as it is travel tested and has a lot of hard use on it. If you travel to a lot of places where if your gear fails you may be out of the water for a while, and if you hate paying extra weight costs; what you are proposing in your OP will give you good service. Give the Apeks wing a pass, the design is not great and parts can be awkward. Use any Al plate you like, and keep your rig minimized mine comes in at 19KG (funny that's just under what most airlines allow or charge you for).
Yeah, when it comes to luggage weight, traveling outside of the US is a pain in the neck. But it does make one learn how to travel like a minimalist though. LOL.

My current rig including luggage right now stands at 20.6 kg (but that is with my Accel fins) - which I can get by most of the time with regional airlines. With my Atomic blades though, the weight will shoot up north of 21kg and that is no bueno - which is why I am looking to switch to an AL plate setup.
 
Might I suggest checking out Deep6 (www.deep6gear.com). I bought a full BP/W rig from them. I went with a SS plate but they carry AL plates as well. I really like the 30 lb wing.
 
Might I suggest checking out Deep6 (www.deep6gear.com). I bought a full BP/W rig from them. I went with a SS plate but they carry AL plates as well. I really like the 30 lb wing.
Yes you may. LOL. @cerich is quite a popular guy on the forum and D6 has certainly earned high praises for the products and customer service. Tks for the suggestion. However, at this point, I'd like to get something that that has a local presence (easier for parts, maintenance, and service) as @red_barbarian alluded to. It just makes things easier.
 
I must disagree with this statement. I have used Halcyon products for almost 20 years with no issues whatsoever. I've found the Halcyon products I've owned to be an excellent value. Perhaps more expensive initially, but, in my experience, the quality and longevity are unsurpassed.

based on what? unsurpassed is probably an accurate statement on longevity, but the majority of the high end bp/w's are going to last just as long and take just as much abuse. Same from a quality side, their quality is good, but it's not better than most of the others. The high end ones all live in the same realm with very little differences in the quality. It was one thing when they first came out and there weren't many games in town, or at the times when their customer service was just far superior than anyone else, but now you really are just paying the blue H tax. It's not that they have gone down, it's that everyone else has risen to the occasion and are doing it for far less money. Halcyon can still charge their premiums and for that I can't fault them. If you can get away with it, then good for you, but they don't have any superior quality on their bp/w's to many others, and they don't last any longer either.
The only really different thing they do is use a coated fabric inner bladder vs a butyl rubber inner bladder. Pros and cons to using it, but in real world use, I haven't seen any improvements and from a materials standpoint, it's not worth the increased cost in my opinion vs using a thicker bladder like DSS does. It's tradeoffs because the fabric is a bit more flexible, but the difference isn't significant in the water.

@red_barbarian the elbow should have been a standard elbow that any of the major bp/w suppliers and many recreational bc's use. obviously water under the bridge now, and at the time they probably weren't available where you are to begin with, but inflators and dump valves are all pretty standardized in the bp/w world in terms of threading, and they swap around with no issue. In fact, putting DSS OPV's on other brands wings is a very common practice.

@CarcharodonCarcharias what parts/maintenance/service do you need on a bp/w? Parts of a standard wing from most manufacturers.
Inflator-these are all universal and if one starts leaking, you can either rebuild it with like 3 o-rings and a bit of patience, or replace it for about $15 with one from DGX. These are only serviced when they start leaking, no service interval on these

Corrugated hose-all universal. non serviceable

elbows-all universal. nonserviceable

bladders-not typically going to break, but if you get a pinch flat, you can repair it with a tire tube repair kit. if it's beyond that, you need a new one. with a DSS Torus it has to get sent back, if you have a DSS LCD or any other wing with a zipper, you just order a new one and put it in. It's not a part that dealers are going to carry, so you have to bring it in anyway. This is a very very very rare occurrence and as long as you take care of your stuff, it's a non-issue. Heavy pool use will wear the wings out quickly, our Halcyon wings last about 4 semesters before the inner bladders completely fall apart. Our HOG wings last about 6 semesters before falling apart, and we have a DSS one that we are trialing and is currently on 7. It's getting very faded in the cover, but the bladder is still holding out.

dump valves-universal. only moving parts are a spring that shouldn't have an issue and is not considered a consumable part, and the string, which is a diy replacement.


there just isn't anything in a bp/w that you really need to worry about local presence. With basically all of the bp/w brands, the dealers have to send them off for repairs anyway, or bring parts in to just replace them. You can do that yourself if you get the parts, so I personally wouldn't worry about it. Do you have any specific concerns that have you wanting a local presence?
 
based on what? unsurpassed is probably an accurate statement on longevity, but the majority of the high end bp/w's are going to last just as long and take just as much abuse. Same from a quality side, their quality is good, but it's not better than most of the others. The high end ones all live in the same realm with very little differences in the quality. It was one thing when they first came out and there weren't many games in town, or at the times when their customer service was just far superior than anyone else, but now you really are just paying the blue H tax. It's not that they have gone down, it's that everyone else has risen to the occasion and are doing it for far less money. Halcyon can still charge their premiums and for that I can't fault them. If you can get away with it, then good for you, but they don't have any superior quality on their bp/w's to many others, and they don't last any longer either.
The only really different thing they do is use a coated fabric inner bladder vs a butyl rubber inner bladder. Pros and cons to using it, but in real world use, I haven't seen any improvements and from a materials standpoint, it's not worth the increased cost in my opinion vs using a thicker bladder like DSS does. It's tradeoffs because the fabric is a bit more flexible, but the difference isn't significant in the water.

@red_barbarian the elbow should have been a standard elbow that any of the major bp/w suppliers and many recreational bc's use. obviously water under the bridge now, and at the time they probably weren't available where you are to begin with, but inflators and dump valves are all pretty standardized in the bp/w world in terms of threading, and they swap around with no issue. In fact, putting DSS OPV's on other brands wings is a very common practice.

@CarcharodonCarcharias what parts/maintenance/service do you need on a bp/w? Parts of a standard wing from most manufacturers.
Inflator-these are all universal and if one starts leaking, you can either rebuild it with like 3 o-rings and a bit of patience, or replace it for about $15 with one from DGX. These are only serviced when they start leaking, no service interval on these

Corrugated hose-all universal. non serviceable

elbows-all universal. nonserviceable

bladders-not typically going to break, but if you get a pinch flat, you can repair it with a tire tube repair kit. if it's beyond that, you need a new one. with a DSS Torus it has to get sent back, if you have a DSS LCD or any other wing with a zipper, you just order a new one and put it in. It's not a part that dealers are going to carry, so you have to bring it in anyway. This is a very very very rare occurrence and as long as you take care of your stuff, it's a non-issue. Heavy pool use will wear the wings out quickly, our Halcyon wings last about 4 semesters before the inner bladders completely fall apart. Our HOG wings last about 6 semesters before falling apart, and we have a DSS one that we are trialing and is currently on 7. It's getting very faded in the cover, but the bladder is still holding out.

dump valves-universal. only moving parts are a spring that shouldn't have an issue and is not considered a consumable part, and the string, which is a diy replacement.


there just isn't anything in a bp/w that you really need to worry about local presence. With basically all of the bp/w brands, the dealers have to send them off for repairs anyway, or bring parts in to just replace them. You can do that yourself if you get the parts, so I personally wouldn't worry about it. Do you have any specific concerns that have you wanting a local presence?

First off, let me say that I love your passion and I think it is great that you are adamant in your belief.

Second, I really appreciate your opinion and your knowledge. I've read your posts on other threads and I think that you are an excellent poster and have plenty of wisdom for me to learn from. I really appreciate you taking your time to respond to my posts and others.

With that said, here is my take on my situation. I like a local presence because:

1) I believe in supporting LDS because these are the ppl that form diving community around here and I would like to support it, foster it, and make it grow. DSS does not sell at my LDS, but Oxycheq, DR, Hollis, Halcyon, and others do.

2) All of your points are valid regarding the part replacement. As I have mentioned before, I would go with DSS if I am back in the states. But at this point, I'd like to have a personal relationship with my LDS as what I have done with most of my equipment purchase. I like the interaction and I like to know who's neck I can wring when things go south.

3)I prefer to handle the equipment, see it in person, and have a feel in my hands for before making my purchase. I can do that with other brands here, but not DSS.

Maybe I am comparing apples to oranges, but I'll buy a new car online because it is cheaper. However, not before without going to the local dealership for a test drive and kick the tires for a bit. And I'd like to do the same for my scuba equipment.

I will just leave it at that.
 
@CarcharodonCarcharias my opinion for DSS has no bearing on my comments. Merely curiosity on why you felt the need for a local presence. It seems more that you are wanting to support the LDS and I can't fault you on that, but it sounded like you were concerned about servicing of equipment more than the purchasing experience. One of the continuous disclaimers that I will give when people are asking about gear is that there is a list of gear that I have determined through the course of my experience diving that I feel is the best and make no secret about it. The one thing that I feel is a reasonable reason to go against that is if you are either forced to or choose to associate with a specific shop which limits your selection. Nothing wrong with that as there are often many benefits of going that route, but without a clear direction on why, it can be difficult to make that decision.

1. Of those, I would probably go with Dive Rite or Oxycheq depending on pricing. Oxycheq uses very thick bladders and they tend not to pack particularly well in my experience. If you aren't regularly travelling, they are incredibly durable and very well built. I personally would avoid Hollis as you mention neck wringing and if the dealer has to deal with Hollis, they have a very poor customer service reputation until you reach Nick directly which may take a bit. It is well documented on here. Halcyon as mentioned is very high quality with brilliant customer service, but they are very expensive compared to other brands and imo they can't justify it. From a use standpoint, they also require STA's. I am a fan of STA's, but I like to not have to use them, especially if travelling regularly as they are somewhat heavy, extra piece of equipment to deal with, and if you loose the wing nuts, you're in for an interesting day.

2. it sounded originally that you were concerned about the manufacturing and having service locally, not selling locally which changes the tune.

3. can't object to that.

my vote has now been cast for Oxycheq of the two. Grab a Mach V 30lb in whatever color you want. Red would get my vote ;-)
Backplates you'll have to decide, but if you travel, the dogbone and fabric plates are quite nice
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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