BP/W BCD-I am puzzled

[impulse]

Hello,

Today I was at the diving school to discuss with my instructer, who is a technical diver and got lot's of technical equipment, the usability of the technical diving BCDs in recreational diving.

I asked him if I can use a BP/W BCD for double tanks with a single tank adapter in recreational diving. And he said, well you can use but it will be very hard to maneuver and to, for example, pass through a narrow entrance of some cave and etc. because it's so large. He added that, the lifting power of those wings for double tanks will be too much for you that it will be hard to acquire buoyancy. He also told there will be lots of drag because of the size of the wings for doubles. He showed me the technical BP/W BCD he uses for TRIMIX diving which was a DiveRite. He also showed me his tanks he just used a few days ago during a 420 fsw dive. He showed me that the tanks are secured to the tank via bolts (I think this type of securing is called STA?). And asked me, will you be able to unscrew these things each time you need to replace your tank during a recreational dive season? And I ofcourse said no it will be very tiring.

Than I asked him about the wings for singles and he told me, well those are not techical BCDs. They are just BCDs which are produced for commercial purposes. Do not buy a BP/W BCD for singles, instead buy a BCD for recreational diving. If you want to learn technical diving, than you must buy true technical equipment. Not a wing for singles. Do not use a technical BCD in rec diving.

I am really puzzled here. You guys here told me that it's possible a BP/W BCD for singles in rec diving but my instructor says it will be inconvenient.

Do you think that he is right? He sells both BP/W BCDs and rec BCDs, so he could not have commercial purposes.

Thank you.

 

[crosing]

Than I asked him about the wings for singles and he told me, well those are not techical BCDs. They are just BCDs which are produced for commercial purposes. Do not buy a BP/W BCD for singles, instead buy a BCD for recreational diving. If you want to learn technical diving, than you must buy true technical equipment. Not a wing for singles. Do not use a technical BCD in rec diving.

I am really puzzled here. You guys here told me that it's possible a BP/W BCD for singles in rec diving but my instructor says it will be inconvenient.

Do you think that he is right? He sells both BP/W BCDs and rec BCDs, so he could not have commercial purposes.

Thank you.

I'm not sure what to make of your post. It's really not that big of a deal to switch from doubles to singles with a BP/W set up. It is recommended to have a smaller wing for single and a larger wing for doubles. An STA is a single tank adapter that keeps the single tank securely mated to the backpack. Singles are attached using cambands where as doubles use a bolt and wing nut to secure to the Backpack.

In fact this is the simple beauty of having a modular BP/W set up where you can mix and match components to meet your diving needs.

That said, I ended up with two BP/W's one for doubles and one for single tanks.

I don't understand what you mean by commercial purposes. Is that referring to divers who do commercial underwater work like welding and so on?

 

[TSandM]

I really don't understand your instructor's point of view.

A backplate is a backplate, and the harness is the same, whether you are diving a single tank or doubles. Your instructor is right, as we have also said here on the board, that a doubles wing will not work well for you with a single tank. However, single tank wings work FINE.

As we discussed elsewhere, if you use a single tank with a backplate, you need something to stabilize the tank, and that can either be a wobble-stopper on the wing, or an STA. If you use an STA, it bolts onto the backplate, and the cambands run through it. There is no need to bolt and unbolt anything every time you dive -- you simply take the tank out of the cambands, as you would with any other BC. If you use a wobble-stopper wing, you don't bolt or unbolt anything, ever; the wing is sandwiched between the tank and the plate, the cambands run through the plate, and the cambands hold the tank tightly against the wobble-stopper.

I hate to say it, but it sounds as though your instructor might be hoping he can sell you a recreational BC and then sell you a plate and doubles wing later.

 

[Joe21]

Well I wouldnt buy any equipment from him or seek his advice anymore. I the hundreds of people on this board arent proof enough than I dont know what is.

 

[Joe21]

Wow two people posted in the 70 second it took me to write my last post.

 

[ONESPEED]

I really don't understand your instructor's point of view.

I do, he's probably trying to push what his shop sells, hence the "recreational" BCD.

 

[Gombessa]

The acronyms are a bit confusing at first, but let's parse it.

I asked him if I can use a BP/W BCD for double tanks with a single tank adapter in recreational diving.

First of all, a bp/w (backplate + wing) is a buoyancy compensator just like a typical recreational jacket or vest device, but to more easily distinguish between the two, most people call the former just "bp/w" and the latter "bcd." It's a bit confusing to call a backplate a "bp/w bcd."

And he said, well you can use but it will be very hard to maneuver and to, for example, pass through a narrow entrance of some cave and etc. because it's so large.

So, basically, what you asked is if you can use a backplate with a doubles wing with a single tank. The instructor's advice is generally sound--this is really non-ideal, though it is possible. Doubles wings do not perform well with a single tank - they'll be too big, and they'll wrap up around the tank like a taco shell, making it hard to stabilize and vent.

He showed me that the tanks are secured to the tank via bolts (I think this type of securing is called STA?). And asked me, will you be able to unscrew these things each time you need to replace your tank during a recreational dive season? And I ofcourse said no it will be very tiring.

You lost me here. I assume he showed you his doubles tanks? They're held together by bands, which are tightened down by bolts. You don't unscrew these. Typically, doubles stay as doubles, and if you move into them, you'll get another pair of tanks to keep as singles for your recreational diving.

An STA is a single-tank adapter. It's typically a steel channel that attaches to the backplate via wingnuts, and allows you to mount a single tank onto a backplate. Many of us use a bp/w with a singles wing and STA (and some singles wings do not require an STA), and it's no trouble to switch out single tanks between dives while using an STA.

Than I asked him about the wings for singles and he told me, well those are not techical BCDs. They are just BCDs which are produced for commercial purposes. Do not buy a BP/W BCD for singles, instead buy a BCD for recreational diving. If you want to learn technical diving, than you must buy true technical equipment. Not a wing for singles. Do not use a technical BCD in rec diving.

If your instructor is telling you to not get a bp/w for recreational diving, there are many who would disagree. While the typical jacket BCD is by far the most common, many people do use BP/W with single wings for all of their recreational diving, and there can be many benefits to doing so. The whole "should I use a bp/w for recreational diving" question is a big can of worms and you can find a lot of information about this on-going debate. But the best thing to do is to try a few dives with a jacket BCD, and a few dives with a singles bp/w (preferably with someone who dives this way and can answer your questions) and see which one you like.

I am really puzzled here. You guys here told me that it's possible a BP/W BCD for singles in rec diving but my instructor says it will be inconvenient.

It's possible, it's done, and it's a great device for singles diving. Many who dive BP/Ws don't go back to BCDs. I exclusively use BP/Ws for all my diving (tropical singles, cold water singles, cold water doubles) and love it. I'm sure you can articulate some downsides, but it really comes down to what you end up liking better. You're very lucky to have an instructor who teaches and sells both--I'd suggest asking him to set up a couple of dives where you can try both and see what you think.

Because a BP/W is modular (you can have one backplate with a singles wing and a doubles wing), I agree that your instructor does have a financial incentive to try to sell you a recreational BCD now, and a full technical BP/W with doubles wing later. I'm not saying his advice is financially motivated, but you should be aware that it exists. If you get a BP/W with singles wing now, chances are you can use the same rig for doubles diving later, all you'd need to do is buy the doubles wing (and not a whole new rig).

 

[parzdiver]

I have used a BP/W for single tank diving for the past year. I use a Halcyon, and you need the Single Tank Adapter to stabilize the tank, but many manufacturers, including Deep Sea Supply and Oxycheck have stabilizers build into the wings.

I am currently getting into more technical diving and have a separate wing for doubles (more lift and a different profile). I really don't understand your instructors statements, they make no practical sense. If you never wanted to remove your tanks from your backplate, you could have one BP/W setup for doubles, and one for singles. The Backplate and harness are the cheap part of the setup, it is the wing that is the most expensive part.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was confused by the explanation, and I am wondering if the instructor's points might have been misunderstood. (I hope they were.)

The part about not using a doubles wing with a STA is true enough. You don't want to use a doubles wing for single tank diving., but there is no reason not to use a singles wing with an STA for singles diving.

Now, I have an old back inflate BCD that I use for singles diving, but there is a good reason for that. I have only so much money to spend in my life, and I have many important purchases on the horizon. If I just use the old BCD for those (now rare) occasions for singles diving, then I don't need to spend any cash for a singles wing and STA. If I were to blunder into a singles wing and STA at a really good price,...

 

[crosing]

I noticed that the op appears to be from Turkey so it might just be a language thing.