bp/w surface bouyancy

[mrfixitchapman]

I almost hate to say this, but I agree with everything the Puffer Fish said. I would add that the straps have to be adjusted correctly so that the lift from the wing lifts your body upward with your body's center of buoyancy is slightly below the wing's center of lift. If the wing's center of lift is too low the wing will try to roll your body forward around it's vertical axis. The fix is easy - adjust the straps so the BP/W rises higher on your back while you are 'hanging' on the surface. Just a couple of inches can make a difference. It may take many dives before everything 'clicks', but it will. When it does you'll love it.

My 2psi.

DC

 

[Plug]

Puffer fish,

I have never had this problem with a BP&W, but I have always dived with 6lbs on the tank straps. I did one use a DUI BC which did push me face first into the water, I felt that the bladder was to high and tried to lower it but I was unable to correct the problem. The BC was a friends so I just gave it back.

Brendan

 

[Nemrod]

I just purchased oms harness and wings, despite all advantages, I have realized that when inflated on surface it does not keep my head up. So in an emergency situation an unconscious diver won't be able to breathe on surface. Is there a way to overcome this or are there any wing designs that would somehow support the head?

The confusion between the BC and the life jacket PFD goes back to the beginning. There is a style of BC that will float you face first even unconcious, the old horsecollar type. Many were equipped with a CO2 cartridge for emergency floatation/rescue. They would reliably float a diver up and airway open. The second best choice would be a full jacket style. None of the back inflates or true wings will provide airway clear floatation for an unconcious diver.

A BC is not a life jacket, they have no certification as such and have passed no test or made any such claims that they would float an unconcious diver with a clear airway.

These would most likely float an unconcious diver face up:

An early wing beside it's horsecollar siblings:

An early weighted back plate:

Unfortunately neither of these wings, the ancient SeaTec or the state of the art Oxy Mach V, will float a diver face first when unconcious, they are not designed for that purpose, they are not life jackets.

I would suggest a classic ScubaPro Stabilizing Jacket (maybe, maybe not) or a Seatec horsecollar:

N

 

[ShakaZulu]

Two posts and talking about BP/W and floating face down....whatever!

 

[Nemrod]

No BC past or present is a life jacket. If they were they would have CG Approved Type I, II, II, IV tags on the inside saying that they have been tested and found to perform as required per the regulations. No BC could pass these tests with the possible exception of some older horsecollar styles.

I just don't see this as a negative for the wing/BP. They are optimized for diving performance, not as a life jacket. That is why you have a buddy and for those of us who solo dive, well, for me, I often wear a horsecollar with a CO2 cartrdige. I can, if need be, dump my entire rig since the horsecollar goes on first, it is under the backplate straps and weight belt and they do strongly float a diver face up in that configuration.

N

 

[vladimir]

My ScubaPro Classic Plus will float me comfortably at the surface with a little inflation. If I inflate it some more, it'll float me higher and in a somewhat supine position with little or no effort on my part. It is a comfortable position to wait for boat pickup, catch rays, etc. I wouldn't, however, count on it to float me face up if I were unconscious.

My Deep Sea Supply steel backplate and wing will also float me comfortably at the surface. And if I inflate it some more, it will tend to push me into the prone position. By deliberately leaning back, you can force yourself into a supine orientation, but it is less comfortable, in my opinion.

 

[Puffer Fish]

I almost hate to say this, but I agree with everything the Puffer Fish said. I would add that the straps have to be adjusted correctly so that the lift from the wing lifts your body upward with your body's center of buoyancy is slightly below the wing's center of lift. If the wing's center of lift is too low the wing will try to roll your body forward around it's vertical axis. The fix is easy - adjust the straps so the BP/W rises higher on your back while you are 'hanging' on the surface. Just a couple of inches can make a difference. It may take many dives before everything 'clicks', but it will. When it does you'll love it.

My 2psi.

DC

Bet that really hurt to say... but thanks anyway.

My Zeagle BP/W does not have much vertical adjustment, other than how tight you want the crotch strap to be....

Perhaps because I learned to dive with a horse collar, I'm a bit more sensitive to this issue. Might also be from having done more real rescues than I ever wanted to.. not sure.

Here is my take on the issue:

A BP/W is not a life preserver...but it should be safe at all inflation levels, and safe means it does not throw you face down.

You can talk about buddy's helping you... how you will always be in control, but if that one event does happen, being able to breath means being alive.

If the unit pushes you back, while not comfortable, it would be a far better option. However, one of the tragic deaths last year was from that very situation, so perhaps that is wrong.

With mine, I am vertical, and fully inflated, with my head down, my mouth is out of the water...a position I hope never to be in, but one I could still breath from.

 

[String]

I just purchased oms harness and wings, despite all advantages, I have realized that when inflated on surface it does not keep my head up. So in an emergency situation an unconscious diver won't be able to breathe on surface. Is there a way to overcome this or are there any wing designs that would somehow support the head?

(i) Make sure harness is set up correctly
(ii) Make sure you aren;t overweighted
(iii) Make sure you are using a sensible size wing for the tank
(iv) Do NOT over inflate the wing. This is the mistake most people make.

 

[Nemrod]

Unconcious or injured, none of them will float you face up with a clear airway. An unconcious person would not be able to adjust the air in the wing or BC, lean back or kick or arch their backs or anything, they would hang limply. In that case, the only BC that might--might--hold the face up and back and with a clear airway is a horsecollar type and even then I would not count on it since they are not rated by the CG to do so. BCs are not designed to float unconcious divers in a breathing position. Any beliefs to the contrary can quickly be demonstrated as false by a pool demonstration, hop in decked out and close your eyes, stop moving and hang. Wings in particular are inherently unstable for surface flotation, they tend to roll face down.

In the 70s and even early 80s I more than once was told I could not dive my wing/plate because it was not PadI approved and would float me face down. Well, we see were that went. A BC is not a life jacket. N

 

[Puffer Fish]

Unconcious or injured, none of them will float you face up with a clear airway. An unconcious person would not be able to adjust the air in the wing or BC, lean back or kick or arch their backs or anything, they would hang limply. In that case, the only BC that might--might--hold the face up and back and with a clear airway is a horsecollar type and even then I would not count on it since they are not rated by the CG to do so. BCs are not designed to float unconcious divers in a breathing position. Any beliefs to the contrary can quickly be demonstrated as false by a pool demonstration, hop in decked out and close your eyes, stop moving and hang. Wings in particular are inherently unstable for surface flotation, they tend to roll face down.

In the 70s and even early 80s I more than once was told I could not dive my wing/plate because it was not PadI approved and would float me face down. Well, we see were that went. A BC is not a life jacket. N

Nemrod, I am a giant fan of that test... at all inflation levels...and if my BP/W did the face forward thing, I would not be wearing it. I am somewhat surprized that you, having used one for so long, have not discovered how to adjust for this.

Bladder size, tank weighting, location of the tank all effect this, as does the back plate material and any weight you carry. I can easily have mine throw me forward...or backwards... or have it work partially inflated, but not completely inflated... personally, none of those are effective options to me.

One of the things one does needs is a wing large enough to actually lift your head out of the water.. the rest is just balance...will be happy to do a video of how the wing works as it is inflated on my next dive..you might be surprised.