DIR- Generic Removing kit (BP/W) underwater - risk/reward & weighting

[Celt]

It's more a functuon of being too light without a rig. My body plus my 3/2 wetsuit is 30 lbs positive. Even with the secondary weight harness, I still need half of that on my BCD. I can balance the weight in the BCD with air, but I cannot achieve neutrality without the weights in the BCD.

If you need 30 pound, there’s no getting away from it, but why don’t you want to put it on a belt you can dump on the surface if you need to.

 

[Gone for diving]

These guys just forgot to put on there rig in the first place,

They don't seem to have a problem with trim, except they touch the top and bottom at the same time...

 

[grantctobin]

These guys just forgot to put on there rig in the first place,

They don't seem to have a problem with trim, except they touch the top and bottom at the same time...

I assure you it was quite intentional and not forgetfulness, though I’m not sure how it relates to this thread.

 

[steinbil]

So you have 3 sets of answers...

DIR: it's dumb to expect to ditch your gear, there's no need and it can do more harm than good. There are far more important skills you need to actually learn and master.

Other agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI, others): We require you to do this in a pool or confined water to develop "comfort" in the water which we really have no way of assessing anyway. Doing this on a real dive is not necessary. If it makes you feel like a Gravy Seal then mission accomplished.

Scubaboard randos: This is a VERY important skill and you're gonna die on your solo pony bottle dive when you get tangled in your own SMB and can't take off your BP/W midwater to pull your own line off your valve.

Who you gonna listen to and why?

This smells like a rhetorical question, but I'll answer in good faith as I don't want to make more of a mess:

I'll take the first one, please. I'm preparing for a future GUE Tech 1 class, so I would like to do things right, but I also like understanding why. And since I'm not that experienced yet, I dabble in these hypothetical discussions to challenge my understanding and learn from those with more experience.

So far, I've reaffirmed my initial reaction that it seemed like a risky/unecessary skill, and it aligns with my current training (in that it hasn't been mentioned/covered), but I actually really appreciate the other perspectives as it helps crystallize the boundaries and reasons for believing what I do.

 

[johndiver999]

You are in the DIR forum.

Also lol if it’s a struggle to move a line off your tank valve… reach back there and move it?

Needless complication.

DIR tangles are always easy to release while alone. LOL,

So you have 3 sets of answers...

DIR: it's dumb to expect to ditch your gear, there's no need and it can do more harm than good. There are far more important skills you need to actually learn and master.

Other agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI, others): We require you to do this in a pool or confined water to develop "comfort" in the water which we really have no way of assessing anyway. Doing this on a real dive is not necessary. If it makes you feel like a Gravy Seal then mission accomplished.

Scubaboard randos: This is a VERY important skill and you're gonna die on your solo pony bottle dive when you get tangled in your own SMB and can't take off your BP/W midwater to pull your own line off your valve.

Who you gonna listen to and why?

Being able to manage removal and replacement of the scuba unit is a useful skill for all kinds of situations. It is most important if/when you are solo.

I dive solo all the time and I would be very uncomfortable if I did not have reasonable confidence that I could R&R. I have been tangled in a float line dozens of times and could not reach back and remove the line. I am not going to "listen to" someone on the internet who says I can just reach back and clear it. I have not been able to do that many times. Getting wrapped up in a line, in a current has killed people.

Being able to execute the maneuver in perfect trim and while neutral might not be so important, but getting it on and off is a very useful skill.

I think I have only done it while on the bottom. I am always careful to vent the BC so the unit does not float away from me when I take it off. It is easier to have the unit negative and the diver's body negative or close to neutral; the last thing you want is for the scuba unit to ascend before you do.

I'm not so sure there is a whole lot of negatives or dangers associated with learning to do the skill. I would assume that it is practiced in easy conditions and hopefully with a buddy to watch (and film for scubaboard).

 

[Cthippo]

If you need 30 pound, there’s no getting away from it, but why don’t you want to put it on a belt you can dump on the surface if you need to.

My weight is divided between four ditchable pockets, two on the weight harness and two on the BCD itself. Ditching any one of them will prevent me from getting neutral.

Would I be better off with a weight belt (or harness) and no weight in my BCD? Perhaps. It's something to think about.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

.Would I be better off with a weight belt (or harness) and no weight in my BCD? Perhaps. It's something to think about.

Weight distribution is a close second to proper amount of weight. Diving a balance rig (which is not what some people think it is) must be maintained.

 

[Cthippo]

Weight distribution is a close second to proper amount of weight. Diving a balance rig (which is not what some people think it is) must be maintained.

What is your definition of a "blanaced rig"?

 

[Celt]

I think I have only done it while on the bottom. I am always careful to vent the BC so the unit does not float away from me when I take it off. It is easier to have the unit negative and the diver's body negative or close to neutral; the last thing you want is for the scuba unit to ascend before you do.

Great way to practice, I also keep my arms in the shoulder straps, the rig can’t get away, it’s neutral in front of you. When it comes to putting it on I simply throw it back over my head and dump a bit from the wing or bcd and it drops right into place. Fasten the waist band and shift my suit inflation hose back under my right arm.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

What is your definition of a "blanaced rig"?

From: Teaching Neutrally Buoyant and Trimmed: How to weight properly, Part 3 - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

Secondly, there is the concept of a balanced rig. This means being able to swim up to the surface on full cylinders with an empty BCD and dry suit, without ditching weights.