"buy equipment here" speech in OW first class!

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Trever:
IMHO The SSI OW book was more like a sales pitch for the LDS. It's one thing for the LDS trying to upsell some equipment, but I think the certifying agencies need to stick to training.
I have made that same statment!
I was an SSI DiveCon and there is an entire chapter about how to sell equipment. That is why they call it "DiveCon" and not "Dive Master"
I am now a PADI Dive Master and am much happier! PADI has the same speach but it is not every other word in the books like SSI.
 
Wow! This thread sure took off fast, and then came back down just as quick.

bp_968, I'm glad the owner/instructor gave you the 1-on-1 attention a LDS should give its customers. Thats how they stay in business. Like I said before...businesses are in business to stay in business. Glad it worked out.

While reading this thread, its easy to see the strong brand support people have for the brands they use. The Zeagle comments were priceless. I don't use them, but cant' knock them for numerous reasons. Reason #1: I never used it. Reason #2: That huge fish caught using the Zeagle brand. Reason #3 (and most important): It would make me sound stupid to knock them and not be able to support my reasoning.

I also was suprised at the comments people made concerning having to buy items from their LDS for classes. While its not required at ours, I have seen first hand why it makes a difference. While doing scuba reviews, I've personally seen students come in five minutes before class with masks that don't fit, fins that are too small or too big, a snorkle that has no way to attach to the mask, wet suits they think zip in the front...and so on. The students that had items from the LDS I work for for never seem to have equipment issues that delay the class (sometimes for 15-20 minutes per student!). This is because we take the time (and it can be a long time) to make sure the items they buy are the right items for them, whichever brand they end up buying.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.
 
toodive4:
Jonnythan,

Fair? Fair is signing up for a dive class and being taught how to dive. The class should also include FREE information on the types of gear you will need and an introduction of some of the options the shop sells. New divers should be spoken too about their diving goals and quality Instructors / owners should be able to point the new diver in a solid direction. [...] This wins long term repeat customers.

Indeed.

"We sell good equipment at fair prices, and we'll take the time to make sure it's right for you at no extra charge. You are welcome to shop elsewhere for your basic gear (see list below and attached Buyer Education sheet) but you will not have a good experience with gear that is unsafe, ill-suited, or ill-fitting; we'd appreciate the opportunity to fulfill your needs and ours by working to find you the right gear from our store.

If you already have gear, or choose to buy it elsewhere, you may come by between ___ and ___ on __________ [not less than 2 weeks before first pool session] and have your instructor evaluate your gear. If you arrive at the first pool session with unsuitable gear, we will be happy to issue you a credit applicable to a future class."

What's so hard about that?
 
lairdb:
Indeed.

"We sell good equipment at fair prices, and we'll take the time to make sure it's right for you at no extra charge. You are welcome to shop elsewhere for your basic gear (see list below and attached Buyer Education sheet) but you will not have a good experience with gear that is unsafe, ill-suited, or ill-fitting; we'd appreciate the opportunity to fulfill your needs and ours by working to find you the right gear from our store.

If you already have gear, or choose to buy it elsewhere, you may come by between ___ and ___ on __________ [not less than 2 weeks before first pool session] and have your instructor evaluate your gear. If you arrive at the first pool session with unsuitable gear, we will be happy to issue you a credit applicable to a future class."

What's so hard about that?

Honesty? Forthright disclosure? LOL
 
lairdb:
Indeed.

"We sell good equipment at fair prices, and we'll take the time to make sure it's right for you at no extra charge. You are welcome to shop elsewhere for your basic gear (see list below and attached Buyer Education sheet) but you will not have a good experience with gear that is unsafe, ill-suited, or ill-fitting; we'd appreciate the opportunity to fulfill your needs and ours by working to find you the right gear from our store.

If you already have gear, or choose to buy it elsewhere, you may come by between ___ and ___ on __________ [not less than 2 weeks before first pool session] and have your instructor evaluate your gear. If you arrive at the first pool session with unsuitable gear, we will be happy to issue you a credit applicable to a future class."

What's so hard about that?

Well ... what's hard about it is that it has proven not to be a very good business model. Back in my divemaster days I worked at a shop that took exactly that approach.

They are no longer in business. Neither are the other two shops I've been associated with who attempted to be "fair" with their customers ... all of these shops tried to be less "brand-specific", and were even known to refer customers who wanted specific gear to other shops in the area who carried that gear, thinking that by providing a customer-oriented service they would somehow win loyal, long-term customers. For the most part, they were proven wrong.

Most consumers really don't care about honesty and good service ... although they like to complain about not getting it. Those who have tried to offer it almost always lose out to the guy who simply offers the lowest price, at the cost of quality.

People just don't seem to understand that you get what you pay for in life ... and that quality service, like quality products, cost money. The shop owner who offers it without attaching a premium price to cover his costs won't remain in business.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
NWGratefulDiver:
Well ... what's hard about it is that it has proven not to be a very good business model. Back in my divemaster days I worked at a shop that took exactly that approach.

They are no longer in business. Neither are the other two shops I've been associated with who attempted to be "fair" with their customers ... all of these shops tried to be less "brand-specific", and were even known to refer customers who wanted specific gear to other shops in the area who carried that gear, thinking that by providing a customer-oriented service they would somehow win loyal, long-term customers. For the most part, they were proven wrong.

There are succesful shops who follow this model, if not to the letter. While there are many factors which determine a business success or failure, in regards to the discussion here, there are many shops who use persuasive, fairly honest sales tatics, and keep their customers. Sending a customer to another shop is the last thing any business wants to do. Thus, some find ways to get what the customer wants, even if it means they are personally the ones going to the other shop to get what the customer wants. Others will try all the negative tactics in their bag of dirty tricks with or without consideration for customer needs. Problem with the latter tactic is you can't fool everyone all the time. And once they discover they've been had, those who do, will be much less inclined to shop at that establishment provided there is a comparable or better alternative. Unfortunately in many locations some of these shops have a virtual local monopoly, or a long term beholden clientel. They now have competition from online shops, and those so inclined, reach back into their bag of dirty tricks to compete. There are also business problems to resolve in regards to the former approach. They may not always be workable, but it is an option many do not consider or dismiss without a full understanding of the issues involved.

It's about selling your benefits to the customer - as opposed to denigrading the competition. Buy the way, lairdb's quote does both in a very subtle way.

Most consumers really don't care about honesty and good service ... although they like to complain about not getting it. Those who have tried to offer it almost always lose out to the guy who simply offers the lowest price, at the cost of quality.

While price is the number one,two, three ...... consumer consideration in making a purchase. Reading these posts you can see many are willing to pay more for other perceived benefits. Many LDS's are doing well without online sales, many by providing just that: honesty, good service, and a place you can trust to do business with at a reasonable price to the customer. Again, by explaining the benefits they provide, instead of falsely denigrading the competition and deceiving their customers. Thats what so many of these thread's are all about. Others do successfully use reprehensible tactics to succeed in business.

People just don't seem to understand that you get what you pay for in life ... and that quality service, like quality products, cost money. The shop owner who offers it without attaching a premium price to cover his costs won't remain in business.

Agree, with the exception: You don't always get what you pay for in life.
 
ScottZeagle:
Pardon the interuption, but that just made me laugh out loud...thanks.

:D

Scott

Glad that you were amused Scott!!!!! Your reg is the one piece of equipment that I have that I without one minutes doubt would reccomend to anyone!!! :)

The next BC that I buy I am 99% sure will be a Zeagle Ranger.... why because it is IMHO just a reliable as my Envoy is!!!
 
Scuba:
It's about selling your benefits to the customer - as opposed to denigrading the competition. Buy the way, lairdb's quote does both in a very subtle way.

:D If you're gonna smack people and not be noticed for it, do it in the back of the head. Thanks, Scuba.
 
As you know - opinions are like A- (you know whats) and everyone has one. Fortunately this board is full of 'em - it makes the reading more fun, the information being divulged damn near complete - and for the new diver - utmost confusing.

How anyone new to the sport figures out where to go or what to do after reading these forums is amazing. They must all be mensa members with astronomical IQ's and more common sense than any of us...

Happy Diving

K



lairdb:
:D If you're gonna smack people and not be noticed for it, do it in the back of the head. Thanks, Scuba.
 

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