Calling a dive on your buddies behalf?

[ferris213]

I went out with a dive charter a while ago and had an interesting couple of dives. I wanted to hear people’s thoughts on how I might have handled things better. First let me apologise for the long post!


A brief outline: I was the only OW diver on the boat, and had about 70 dives at that stage. The others were all AOW (quite a big deal was made of the fact that this was an “advanced boat”…except for me…) I was assigned an instabuddie that had about 10 dives to her name. On the ride out to the site she battled with seasickness, but I went through with her a fairly detailed discussion of how I like to dive, hand signals, minimum surfacing pressures and the fact I like to stick pretty close to my buddy etc. We discussed her expectations and I was fairly comfortable to be diving with her.


The first dive I was asked by the DM to stay above 18m. This is the shops policy for OW divers and I was told they can and will sit divers out of the second dive if the depth limit is exceeded. I had no problem with that and told my buddy that is my limitation and I wasn’t going to break it. In we jump for dive one. An easy reef dive that went well. I was a little annoyed by the fact that my buddy spent some time at 20-21m, while I stayed shallower at 18m. During the dive I would say that she was not terribly attentive as a buddy. I was always the one catching her eye and asking ok and pressures.


During the surface interval I was told by the DM that I was welcome to join the group on the deeper second dive. Max depth was 30m looking for sharks. I was comfortable with this and after the dive brief we jumped in. Again it was up to me to maintain buddy contact during this dive. About half way through the dive my buddy started getting leg cramps. She was struggling to stretch them out and refused my offer to help her. Once she had recovered I asked OK? And she signalled she was fine and wanted to continue.


After another 5 mins she is having cramps again. Her buoyancy has again gone out the window and she is now standing on the coral at 28m stretching her leg. Again she refuses help and I note she is breathing heavily and not checking gauges or paying attention to anything other than her cramps. I ask her again very clearly “are you ok and do you want to surface?” She says no.


I am now down to about 8mins NDL and figure she must be very close to deco (I have a fairly aggressive oceanic computer) I swim over and try to signal that she should check her computer. I don’t really think she understands what I was trying to ask so I look at it for her and can’t follow the display. I point at my computer, then point at her and again ask ‘ok?’ she says ‘yes’ and we swim off after the group. Within a few seconds I see her look at her computer (I was pretty much just staring at her the whole time by now) and can see she is confused by it. She bolts straight past me and reaches the DM. Starts pointing at her computer and he signals to the group that the dive is over and we head up mid water. I suspect she finally realised she was in deco and didn’t know what the computer was telling her or what to do. The group surfaced no problems.


My questions are; what can I have done better? Is it ok to call a dive on your buddies behalf? I was fine at those depths and didn’t feel out of my comfort zone at all, but I don’t think she was ok. Can I thumb it because I don’t think she should continue? Could narcosis have been a factor in her focussing entirely on her cramps as she went into deco? Despite constantly signalling she is ok? I feel if I knew the sign for ‘Check you NDLs” a lot of the confusion could have been eliminated. Is there one? Can someone explain it?

Thanks again.

 

[HenrikBP]

"Any diver can thumb any dive for any reason"

If you felt that her situation made you uncomfortable or the dive seem less safe than it should etc. etc. I.e. any reason, it'd be fine for you to thumb the dive.

 

[HowardE]

To echo what Henrik said. "Any diver can thumb a dive at any time"

What you could have done differently, is discuss with your buddy in advance (before the dive) signals for "check your NDL's on your computer"

On deeper dives where NDL is potentially an issue, I usually brief the other diver that when I point at my computer and then you, I want to know your NDL.

If the diver is a NEW diver... I say, "When I point to my computer, I want you to SHOW ME your computer"

Pressure is a different signal.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Lots of divers ... particularly newer divers ... will push themselves beyond prudence due to peer pressure ... because they're concerned about looking weak or ruining someone else's dive. If I notice someone having difficulties ... any type ... that either looks uncomfortable or make me feel uncomfortable. I will thumb the dive. One way to remove peer pressure in this call is to "lie" to them ... signal that you're cold, or are having a problem, and need to surface. That puts it on you, rather than them.

Although people are correct that anyone can thumb a dive at any time, the reality is that lots of divers will resist if they think you're calling it on their behalf ... and will insist that they're OK to continue, even when they're not ... and many don't seem to understand the concept that a thumb pointing toward the surface isn't a question, but an imperative. They're far more likely to respond to it as one if they think it's you who needs to end the dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cave Diver]

I've thumbed the dive for someone else many times, several of those before we ever hit the water.

When diving with less experienced people, I always try to be aware of the fact that they may look at me as the leader and they're doing the dive as simply a "trust me" dive. If I think they're significantly beyond their comfort level, I'll call the dive even if I'm fine with it. A couple of times after doing that, I had a buddy who claimed to be ok with the dive at the time thank me later because they didn't feel entirely sure about doing it.

 

[windapp]

Below 24 m, as a dive buddy, you become the redundant brain, in the same way that you carry the redundant air source, and redundant first stage regulator. If your buddy's brain is failing to function properly, dueto narcosis, you need to get him/her to ascend to a non-narcotic level. If your buddy's brain is failing due to pre-occupation with difficulties, you need to thumb the dive.

As per my recently acquired personal policy, I would not be in this position, as I do not dive with strangers below 18 m. If you had a problem, your buddy would have been useless, and you would not have been close enough to the surface to handle the issue on your own.

 

[haumana ronin]

Slight hijack:
How would you handle it in a buddy-group type of situation, where individual divers surface alone, that isnt supposed to happen but often does?

:zen:

 

[windapp]

Slight hijack:
How would you handle it in a buddy-group type of situation, where individual divers surface alone, that isnt supposed to happen but often does?

:zen:

You either choose to accept the additional risk, find a buddy willing to stick with you, and adhere to the buddy system, or don't dive with that group.

 

[nimoh]

Slight hijack:
How would you handle it in a buddy-group type of situation, where individual divers surface alone, that isnt supposed to happen but often does?

:zen:

if one member of the group surfaces, we all surface (well, at least me, I won't force anyone to surface). If one of the members does a rapid ascent, and I can't stop them, I will do a normal ascent (but probably blow through a safety stop) and meet up with them on the surface.

To me, if someone starts going up, it is the same as thumbing the dive.

However, this may result in me looking for a new buddy group for the next dive, especially if the ascent happens early.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I want to commend ferris213 for his pre-dive conversations with instabuddy, his fidelity to the dive profile on both dives, his efforts to maintain close buddy proximity, and his efforts to communicate with instabuddy during the dive. Perhaps instabuddy was narced, or as a diver with limited experience, not comfortable in getting direction from anyone but the DM. That's on her, not ferris213. I did like the comment about "its not you, its me" as an approach to get a diver oblivious to their issues to end the dive, but then I wonder if instabuddy would have been responsive to that. Perhaps one other alternative for the second dive was for ferris213 to summon the DM to check on instabuddy when she was not responsive to his inquiries.
DivemasterDennis