Canon A570 IS vs. A720 IS - need advice

[chip104]

I have the 710IS 7.1MP which has the DIGIC II processor that can be hacked. I guess the 720 changed to the DIGIC III processor. I like being able to hack the chip. I like chips. In the beginning of the year I was deciding between the 710 or the 570.

I am more into terrestrial photo taking and didn't think I would get into UW stuff (boy was I wrong!...) so the fact that I could add cheap lenses to the 700 A series was the biggest thing that swayed me over the 500 A series. Keep in mind that you can't use the add-on lenses underwater - they're strictly terrestrial and you need to get separate lenses for UW. The 6x zoom with a telephoto add-on lens is pretty awesome (must have steady hands or a tripod for best results!) but as Choyster said, I wonder if that would be any use UW. Although I guess you can argue what difference is there really between a 4x and a 6x zoom. I'm fine with the f-stops, 10 f-stop choices were more than enough for me.

Both are great cameras by the way. I got the 570 for my parents since it's smaller and they don't really need to add lenses or use a 6x zoom.

Hope that helps.

 

[susan6868]

I am more into terrestrial photo taking and didn't think I would get into UW stuff (boy was I wrong!...) so the fact that I could add cheap lenses to the 700 A series was the biggest thing that swayed me over the 500 A series. Keep in mind that you can't use the add-on lenses underwater - they're strictly terrestrial and you need to get separate lenses for UW. The 6x zoom with a telephoto add-on lens is pretty awesome (must have steady hands or a tripod for best results!) \

Chip- thanks for your input- you make some very good points. Since I'm a completely new at this, the f stops and hacking and RAW really just go way over my head. However, I would like to use this camera to really learn, and although I'm buying it with UW pictures in mind, unfortunately I spend most of my days high and dry and will have more opportunity to use it "topside". With that in mind, I think I might really like using the 6X zoom. My Sony DC-W80 (useless UW) has a 3X zoom and I'm always wishing I had a little more zoom. I also think cheap add on lenses might be fun eventually, once I've had the camera a while.

I went to Circuit City yesterday just to look at the two cameras side by side (I know, these are point and shoots under $200, I'm acting as if I'm buying a house or a car).
Anyway, they really look and act almost the same to the casual eye. However, I did take both camera side by side and zoom on a person maybe 30 feet away. The difference was not incredible but surely obvious. Also, I've been reading a lot of reviews that talk about lag time between taking flash pictures on the 720 and I found that both the 570 and the 720 were about the same, and surely not terrible.

The 720 seemed a little bit larger, but also slightly less "plastic-y" if that means anything at all.

So, based on my secret shopper mission combined with the points you've made here, I think I'm now leaning toward the 720.

Price difference between the 720 and housing as compared to the 570 with housing is about $80. As long as the 720 takes pictures UW as well as the 570, I'm willing to pay the difference.

Chip, do you have any pictures UW you've taken with the 710 you could share?

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[chip104]

Chip- thanks for your input- you make some very good points. Since I'm a completely new at this, the f stops and hacking and RAW really just go way over my head.

yeah, hacking the chip is really just a novelty for me. It's just something cool to do. I'm by no means close to a photographer level and I just take pics for pleasure.

However, I would like to use this camera to really learn, and although I'm buying it with UW pictures in mind, unfortunately I spend most of my days high and dry and will have more opportunity to use it "topside". With that in mind, I think I might really like using the 6X zoom. My Sony DC-W80 (useless UW) has a 3X zoom and I'm always wishing I had a little more zoom. I also think cheap add on lenses might be fun eventually, once I've had the camera a while.

Yeah the cheap add-on lenses are fun to play with but you get what you pay for ($75 on amazon for the wide angle and telephoto lens plus adapter combo, and $32 for a cheap fisheye!). The biggest issues I have with them are the slight vignetting and sometimes you get glare. But regardless I've definitely got my money's worth out of them. I almost always take pics with the WA lens.

I went to Circuit City yesterday just to look at the two cameras side by side (I know, these are point and shoots under $200, I'm acting as if I'm buying a house or a car).

no worries, I did the same. It's an investment - I'll be using this camera for maybe the next 2-3 years so the research was crucial for me!

Also, I've been reading a lot of reviews that talk about lag time between taking flash pictures on the 720 and I found that both the 570 and the 720 were about the same, and surely not terrible.

Yeah, all the reviews on all the A series points to the flash recycle time as a main concern compared to other cameras (ie the SD series). I figured I’d be using this camera mostly without flash and with the add-on lens the flash is useless since the lens blocks the built-in flash (I think maybe a diffuser will solve this problem). The IS also helps with nonflash pics.

Price difference between the 720 and housing as compared to the 570 with housing is about $80. As long as the 720 takes pictures UW as well as the 570, I'm willing to pay the difference.

FWIW, I was able to shop online for the 710IS and get it for $200. In stores it was $280 iirc.

Chip, do you have any pictures UW you've taken with the 710 you could share?
Thanks again for the advice.

LOL, not unless you want to see pics of me screwing about in a pool with my brother? They’re horribly grainy and I was shooting in auto mode. I’m really just beginning to learn in UW and will get to try it out in open water in a couple weeks. I wasn't planning to do UW photo stuff but my friends bought the ikelite housing for me. I chose the 710 purely because of the terrestrial advantages. If you want I have some pics using the 710 with the addon lens?

It might be good to mention some of the things I have issues with about the 710:
* The resolution on the screen is too low for me to properly adjust manual focus. Often times I don’t have the image in focus (not a problem for me when shooting macro). Maybe it’s just my bad eyes. (edit: actually I'm not sure if the 570 is any better)
* The view finder is blocked by the add-on lens (counter: just use the screen, silly rabbit)
* The view finder crops the actual image being taken
* I was only able to shoot 1 min of video in the fast video mode. Kinda frustrating when trying to do a 1+ min sequence (counter: it’s a camera not a camcorder, stupid).
* edit: oh and another thing about the IS - it doesn't work when the turn the camera for vertical shots. I'm pretty sure the 570 works the same.

That’s all I can really think of now. Hope that helps.

 

[alcina]

Wow, what an excellent thread on these two cameras!!

And WOW thanks for all the kind words! The Sticky is a compilation of ideas and materials from a broad spectrum of our members here on ScubaBoard, not just my own information, and this thread once again shows why we're such a great group of people

I recently added two more 570s to my line up. I might add another one shortly, too. I like them and there's nothing in the 720 that would entice me to spend the extra money. I prefer smaller so that isn't a con for me. I don't think you can go wrong at all with either choice!

The flash recycle time can be an issue. Some things that help me in this situation:

1) you just need to realise that it will take a while and plan your shooting accordingly
2) always use freshly, fully charged batteries. It might even be useful to switch out between dives, which I hesitate to do usually, but the Canon housings make things so easy if you have a nice dry, clean area on board.
3) buy good batteries AND a good charger. It does make a difference.
4) use the manual white balance - one of my crew uses mwb almost exclusively and his images look lovely out of the camera, not over photoshopped or "off" as some mwb images can do.
5) lower your flash intensity - I always set mine down one click on the Canon A series. If I really need a little extra oomph, I will selectively change it to 0 underwater but then change it back. It's rare I need to do thism though. It actually can make a tremendous difference (a couple of seconds, I've found) in the recycle time.

If flash recycle time is a biggie for you, check out some of the Canon A series models that use four batteries instead of only two. They are slightly larger, but the time is reduced.

I have a question...I keep seeing references to a smaller aperture range on the one camera, but a quick glance through the specs doesn't tell me what the range is - can someone pop that info in here for me?
The 570's aperture choices are plentiful:
2.6 widest 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, 5.6, 6.3, 7.1, 8.0

Remember that apertures on a compact don't really work the same way aperture numbers on a dslr do (ok they work the same way but...). On a dslr with a 60mm macro lens, for instance, f8.0 will give you a very finite area of sharpness - the rhinophores of a nudi will be in focus but the butt won't be - on a compact it'll give you the whole nudibranch pretty much!

susan - I really don't think you can go wrong with either choice and I think both cameras have more than enough room for learning and growing...now it's just a matter of flipping a coin and getting out there with whatever one you choose! Can't wait to see some images!

 

[Rickg]

alcina,

I think the post you are talking about was by "Choyster" where I believe he was referring to the slightly wider aperture range of the A570 vs the A720. This was a selling point for him because he said he prefers to shoot in the Aperture Priority mode and the A570 had a better range.

I took the below off of the Canon USA website.

A720 - Maximum Aperture f/2.8 (W) - f/4.8 (T)

A570 - Maximum Aperture f/2.6 (W) - f/5.5 (T)


Rickg

 

[alcina]

Ah, ok!

Just to be clear, those number are NOT the aperture range of the camera. They are the widest apertures the camera will allow you to use at the extremes of the zoom range.

So when you have the lens set at the widest possible (no zoom), the A570 is a bit wider. So not enough to notice, though, imho. This will give you a "blurrier" background - very helpful in isolating subjects and trying to minimize distracting backgrounds. To be honest, on my compacts, I rarely use the widest aperture, but it can come in handy for low light situations and for creative control. Again, the difference between 2.6 and 2.8 is nothing.

At the zoomed position, the A720 edges the A570 a bit here. A wider aperture means a faster lens, which means more light is possible and so you can shoot in a wider variety of lighting conditions. This is why you see such huge price tags on some dslr zoom lenses vs other dslr lenses with the same focal range - wider apertures = more money! Again, this is not a HUGE difference on these models and it would be interesting to see a semi-standardized test. Some days that little bit wider is going to be really neat; most days you're not going to notice it at all.

Both of these cameras should have their smallest apertures as f8, I would guess, and that should be accessible through the range of the zoom.

I kinda hate these numbers in specs because they can be very confusing; they do the same thing on dslr lenses, not just on compacts, so it's important to be clear on what they mean.

These are two nifty models...I've just been shooting puppy photos with the kid/pet setting on my A570. It's doing a pretty good job - first time I've used one of the presets.

 

[susan6868]

Rick- took your advice and tried to buy the A-Data 4G card you recommended. Supermedia is out of them.
I'll keep looking, but in the meanwhile, I was wondering if I need to purchase a card reader as well in order to tranfer the photos to my laptop while traveling?

Alcina, thanks for stopping by. If you give both cameras your blessing I know I can't go wrong. You were the one who helped me when I was in Little Cayman and couldn't get a photo underwater with my Sony DSC-W80.

(P.S. Since then I argued with Sony so much about their false advertising that they sent me their cheesy $100 filter gratis. Suffice to say it did absolutely nothing to improve the shots. Wish I had consulted you before that purchase last year.


Chiip, I'm glad you admit to being as cautious as me about your investment. As noted above, I wasted about $450 bucks on a Sony paperweight last year because I assumed a big company like Sony knew what they were talking about and didn't bother to consult my friends on the board. So far, no one has expressed dissatisfaction with either the 720 or the 570.

Happy New Year to all and thanks again for all the help. Wait till the questions start rolling AFTER I get the camera!

 

[chip104]

I edited my post above.

Here are the 710's f-stops (same as the 720):
2.8 | 3.2 | 3.5 | 4.0 | 4.5 | (4.8 only available when fully zoomed) | 5.0 | 5.6 | 6.3 | 7.1 | 8.0

 

[Rickg]

Alcina,

Thanks for the explanation on aperature range for these cameras. You are dead on in that it is not readily understandable for a novice from the SPEC sheets that are available. You are also correct in that the A720 has a range of 2.8 - 8.0.

susan6868,

I ended up with the A-Data because I wanted 4GB SDHC Class 6 memory cards and it just so happened that SuperMediaStore had the best deal going at the time. And after searching the Internet for reviews/comments on these cards decided that they were an acceptable option for what I wanted.

If you do want an A-Data card looks like the are available on Amazon.com at a good price:

Amazon.com: Sandisk 4GB Secure Digital SD HC Memory Card (SDSDB-4096, BULK, No Reader): Electronics

Also you will probably need a card reader unless you are planning on taking a laptop with you and it already has an SDHC card reader. I needed one because my desktop computer at home doesn't have an SDHC card reader. I bought the following from SuperMediaStore but there are a ton of options out there. I just went with them because I ordered the card reader at the same time that I ordered the memory cards. Here is what I bought and it worked just fine.

Super Talent SJAI-2 All-in-One External Card Reader, Black

Also, I'll try to post some of my pictures from our recent Sipadan Island trip over the next couple of days so you can see what can be done using only the camera. I'm still sorting through 800+ pictures that I took but I'll post those that I've finished with.

Have a Happy New Year.

Rickg

 

[Choyster]

Whoops! I guess I should have been more precise in my post. I meant to say, "There's an extra f/stop at the widest zoom on the 570." I agree that it's not really a big deal, but nice to have what I consider to be a "better" feature on the cheaper option.

Good luck with your purchase decision!