Cardio questions

[LI Diver]

I was wondering about a couple of things. We always hear that exercise and diet is the way to weight loss and physical fitness. Which I don't doubt in any way. I was just wondering since Cardio and Weight Training are the two componets needed for weight loss and since we need a deficit in calories to lose weight (fat hopefully) what does the body use to repair the muscles that are broken down during exercise if it dosen't have enough nutrition already? Of course I'm not talking about high intensity body builder no pain no gain type of workout but mainly the heart muscle during cardio type of exercise. I am a 47 yr old male considerably overweight and have a family history of heart issues (mostly in their 60's).
Also.. we hear that all that extra weight is putting a strain on your heart, it has to work harder. Why?? other than the obvious like moving 200 lbs requires x amount of energy as opposed to 150 lbs for the same distance.(irrelevant to a degree once we are in the water) Or is their mechanical reasons like the fat putting actual pressure on the heart muscle in it's cavity? Is their extra miles of cappilaries to pump blood through on a fat person as opposed to a thin person? And if so do these some how go away when we lose weight??
I guess what I'm asking is what is the actual process that makes that strain on the heart?

Thanks guy's Ed

 

[LI Diver]

Wow nobody wants to touch this one! There has got to be a cardiologist or a sports med guy on the board thats brave enough! TS&M how about it?? I'll sign a wavier if needed!!!!!!

 

[LI Diver]

Ok how about just these 2 questions alone:

#1 I was wondering about a couple of things. We always hear that exercise and diet is the way to weight loss and physical fitness. Which I don't doubt in any way. I was just wondering since Cardio and Weight Training are the two componets needed for weight loss and since we need a deficit in calories to lose weight (fat hopefully) what does the body use to repair the muscles that are broken down during exercise if it dosen't have enough nutrition already? Of course I'm not talking about high intensity body builder no pain no gain type of workout but mainly the heart muscle during cardio type of exercise

#2 Also.. we hear that all that extra weight is putting a strain on your heart, it has to work harder. Why?? other than the obvious like moving 200 lbs requires x amount of energy as opposed to 150 lbs for the same distance.(irrelevant to a degree once we are in the water) Or is their mechanical reasons like the fat putting actual pressure on the heart muscle in it's cavity? Is their extra miles of cappilaries to pump blood through on a fat person as opposed to a thin person?


I would also love to know why no replies? Is it nobody knows or is it no one wants to be misleading or cause harm in some way? Either is fine but just curious.
If it is any consolation I went to the American Heart Association web site and got no answers there either and further found a statement to the effect of that they just don't know all of the reasons but just the data on some issues.

 

[reefduffer]

I don't know why nobody wants to answer. I'm not in the medical or exercise profession so maybe my complete lack of credentials gives me the freedom
to try. Consider this as suggestions for your further research, not final answers:

Ok how about just these 2 questions alone:

#1 I was wondering about a couple of things. We always hear that exercise and diet is the way to weight loss and physical fitness. Which I don't doubt in any way. I was just wondering since Cardio and Weight Training are the two componets needed for weight loss and since we need a deficit in calories to lose weight (fat hopefully) what does the body use to repair the muscles that are broken down during exercise if it dosen't have enough nutrition already? Of course I'm not talking about high intensity body builder no pain no gain type of workout but mainly the heart muscle during cardio type of exercise

Muscle tissues are made mostly of protein. You need balanced protein (all
essential amino acids) to repair muscle or make new muscle. It doesn't take
huge quantities of dietary protein to handle the requirements of normal repair.
The body cannot synthesize protein from fat or carbohydrates, ultimately all
protein in your body was eaten. But protein is broken down and excreted,
which is why you need it in your diet, to replace that.

My amateur understanding, though, is that if you are actually malnourished
in this area, the body will dissolve structural muscle (those big biceps of yours)
to keep organs like the heart maintained, but only to a point. Ultimately,
starvation kills you before all your structural muscle disappears, even if
you get enough energy from consuming fat and carbohydrate.

Pretty far-fetched for modern life. If you're contemplating reduced caloric
intake for weight loss, see reputable sources for RDA of protein in particular,
but also all nutrients. You can't just stop eating to get healthy.

#2 Also.. we hear that all that extra weight is putting a strain on your heart, it has to work harder. Why?? other than the obvious like moving 200 lbs requires x amount of energy as opposed to 150 lbs for the same distance.(irrelevant to a degree once we are in the water) Or is their mechanical reasons like the fat putting actual pressure on the heart muscle in it's cavity? Is their extra miles of cappilaries to pump blood through on a fat person as opposed to a thin person?

My understanding: First, yes, fat, or any increased body mass requires more
blood distribution to support it, so there is more work for the heart.

But that's not really the most important thing going on. Fat people tend to
build up fatty/waxy deposits on the inside surfaces of arteries and veins.
Over time, the deposits can also calcify. Very roughly analogous to old
plumbing in a house. This is a complex process involving genetics, cholesterol levels,
and many variables that are incompletely understood at this time.
But excess body fat, and high cholesterol levels in the blood, seem to be
key contributing factors regardless of genetics, and both diet and exercise
tend to keep these in healthier ranges.

This "plaque" is bad for a couple of reasons: the reduced effective diameter
of the blood vessels makes the heart work harder, and also it's possible
for pieces of the plaque to break away, blocking circulation downstream,
directly causing either heart attack or stroke events.

I would also love to know why no replies? Is it nobody knows or is it no one wants to be misleading or cause harm in some way? Either is fine but just curious.
If it is any consolation I went to the American Heart Association web site and got no answers there either and further found a statement to the effect of that they just don't know all of the reasons but just the data on some issues.

I'm curious as well. This board is usually pretty chatty and helpful.
Again, this isn't medical advice I've given, just suggestions for what subjects
you might want to do more reading about to get your questions answered.
And maybe one reply will open the door, at least to correcting anything I've
said that is innacurate. Or not.

 

[merxlin]

#1-I was wondering about a couple of things. We always hear that exercise and diet is the way to weight loss and physical fitness. Which I don't doubt in any way. I was just wondering since Cardio and Weight Training are the two componets needed for weight loss and since we need a deficit in calories to lose weight (fat hopefully) what does the body use to repair the muscles that are broken down during exercise if it dosen't have enough nutrition already? Of course I'm not talking about high intensity body builder no pain no gain type of workout but mainly the heart muscle during cardio type of exercise

Another amateur opinion-It is very difficult, and a long process to build muscle AND lose weight. In order to lose fat, your body needs to deplete the glycogen stored in the muscles. The best way to do this is interval cardio training. The is a member, Coach Izzi ( coach_izzi ), that has posted several articles about how doing weight training correctly is also a cardio workout. My trainer subscribes to this method. No long rests between sets, just an hour of working your butt off. It keeps your heart rate up during the entire workout and you do burn fat (if you adjust your diet- cut carbs, lower fats, enough protein) and eat correctly (several smaller meals throughout the day, no late meals, etc). You also build muscle which can offset some of the fat weight loss. Thats why many diet plans do not promote heavy exercise. Look up Coach's posts. They have a lot of good info.

Regarding caloric deficiency, most people can easily cut calories. Just make sure what calories you do ingest are a good balance of protein (lower fat sources), vegetables & fruit (watch out for the high sugar varieties- they can slow your progress), some fats (essential oils), and some carbs. Adding exercise to your routine instantly helps as you increase your caloric requirement. Be warned though that the "Calories Burned Meters" on most machines are very inaccurate and read that you are burning many more calories than you really are.

Good luck!

 

[ssflounder]

LI Diver,
I'm not an expert on the matters but have many friends who are certified physical trainers/wellness directors. Reading through the discussion Reef duffer is on target. Overweight people develop plaque on the interior walls of arteries and veins which lead to stroke. Basically the diameter of your veins & arteries constrict which causes your heart/pump to work harder to produce the same result. The main cause of this is the food industry. 20 years ago the food didn't have half the preservatives and other crap that makes your body store you guessed it fat. That and the sedimentary lifestyle that Americans have developed glued to TV and video games. Good news you want to do something about it. You can't change the plaque built up in your blood vessels already but you can prevent adding more. My suggestion if you or anyone else is looking to make changes is first change your diet. Personally, my new year’s resolution is eating more than 3 times a day. The avg. person consumes over 1800 calories per meal. Also I try to eat 5 different colors per day. Eat less carbs. Especially during your evening meals. The main way to cut weight is to burn more calories than you eat. Easier said than done. If you're not already exercising start. Just try to do 20-30 minutes 4-5 times a week. You don't have to kill yourself just work above your target heart rate. I suggest you look for your BMI and target heart rate. Something 65-85% above resting does the trick and within the first month you should see a difference. Also start strength training. Not to add bulk but to kick start your metabolism. You'll start burning fat all day long. Get a physical, go see a physical trainer and start an all over workout program. Keep at it for 3 months 3-4 times a week and you'll never stop. To answer your capillaries question thin and fat people have the same amt of capillaries just less fat %.

 

[LI Diver]

My amateur understanding, though, is that if you are actually malnourished
in this area, the body will dissolve structural muscle (those big biceps of yours)
to keep organs like the heart maintained, but only to a point. Ultimately,
starvation kills you before all your structural muscle disappears, even if
you get enough energy from consuming fat and carbohydrate.

.

I was wondering if the organs had some kind of self preservation mode. Ive been restricting my calories but trying to get at least 70 grams of protein a day on a 1400 calorie a day diet. I've been doing this and walking on the treadmill or riding the stationary bike to burn a total of 400 calories (according to the meter). 16 of the last 20 days. I've also swam and did some weight training during this period.I know the meters are inaccurate but I use different machines and also they don't count the extra calories you burn for a period after exercising due to a raised metabolism. Also even though it asks for your weight shouldn't there be an input for your height or stride length? Wouldn't a shorter person have to work harder than a taller person walking at the same speed??

Anyways according to different calculators I need between 2800 and 3000 calories a day to maintain my present weight (240#) with my activity level.. or lack of(not counting the gym) So the way I see it 2800 minus 1400 calories consumed plus 400 calories burned = a deficit of 1800 calories or a little over 1/2 pound of fat. In actuality I have lost 11 pounds in the last 21 days so lo and behold the math is actually working so far!

I started taking an hour to burn the 400 calories but just bought a heart rate monitor and for the last 2 days have walked at a comfortable pace for 5 minutes and then increased the incline and speed until my heart rate moves up just over the 65% mark and adjust accordingly to keep it there for 30 minutes then I level off the treadmill and coast for another 2 or 3 songs (8-12 minutes).

I've been eating frozen healthy choice, south beach or lean cuisine meals 3 times a day. I try to find ones between 300 to 350 calories and with the highest protein I can. at 10 am and 3 pm I have either two egg whites (hard boiled) (the dog is getting fat on those egg yolks!) or a container of fat free plain yogurt. I've also been drinking a couple of cups of green tea per day in addition to water. One more item and I'm kinda embarassed to say and probably will get flamed for it but I've also been drinking a zero calorie "thermogenic" drink at the gym while exercising. It's put out by world wide or something.


I just want thank everyone who has replied I really do appreciate it!

 

[Jrock1062]

I was at one time a bodybuilder so i have a little knowledge of weight lose and muscle building i will also say i haven't read through the whole thread but real quick here you go and i am not a Doctor just some guy on the INTERNET and no expert LOL but
A) Protein builds and repairs muscle
B) Carbs are for energy simple and complex simple breaks down into sugars faster so they can be used quicker Note : if you take in Carbs and dont use them that is what will be stored as fat
C) Fat used to lubricate joints and digestive track and (very important covers all organs with a layer for protection except the heart i believe )
D) empty calories like Vodka have no nutritional value
E) Fat is just stored energy your body is designed to store energy in case of starvation you can lose it two ways
A) Reduce total calorie intake
B) Reduce energy producing foods IE Carbs (thats why Atkins works)
As for how to lose weight either way will work add cardio in the morning before you eat or drink anything that will get your metabolism going and burn fat reserve because your body burns food first before going to the reserves

 

[LI Diver]

Thanks JR, but Vodka! are you sure ??????????? The way I see it alcohol is a great solvent so if I drink enough of it should clean that greasy plaque right out of my arteries!!
Seriously though I hear where your coming from I purposley asked about the physiological end of it because while I'm no doctor or nutritionist the nutrition part of it has been a lifelong interest of mine no doubt because of my weight problem. Being a voratious reader and always interested in the sciences, especially biology I've studied nutrition probably since my early teens. I was into sports as well as bodybuilding and powerlifting at one time or another through my teens and early 20's as a way to combat my tendency to gain weight. I used to set my alarm clock to wake myself up to take shot glasses full of liquid protein because I read that the body can only utilize 24 grams of protein per hour max and the rest goes to waste(not the wimpy powder but the nasty pure predigested animal collagen that had the consistency of ...well er snot.)
While I agree with most everything you said the part about the extra carbs turning into fat I think, again I'm no expert but if you overeat regardless if it's protein,fats or carbs the balance will be stored as body fat. Granted some may be digested and processed faster but they all get there. Of course also this may vary to some degree from person to person and partially due to genetics. Someone once asked Arnold in the prime of his career what did he attribute the most to his success was it his workout regimen,his diet or his combination of supplements. His reply was ... Genetics.

 

[reefduffer]

Thanks JR, but Vodka! are you sure ??????????? The way I see it alcohol is a great solvent so if I drink enough of it should clean that greasy plaque right out of my arteries!!
Seriously though I hear where your coming from ...

Although you seem to mean that as a joke, it is truer than you think.

See "Drink to your Health", Arthur Klatsky, Scientific American Feb 2003.
It's subscription-only online, but see
Alcohol and Cardiovascular Health -- Klatsky 44 (4): 324 -- Integrative and Comparative Biology
and
Commentary: Could abstinence from alcohol be hazardous to your health? -- Klatsky 30 (4): 739 -- International Journal of Epidemiology
both are unfortunately a little less accessible to the layman than the sciam
article, but at least they're free online.

The gist is that moderate alcohol consumption seems to reduce coronary
artery disease. Mechanism is still unclear. There are real health problems
with heavy alcohol use, so recommendations are hard to come by.
Moderate is 1, or at most 2, "standard drinks" a day for an adult male.
(12 oz beer, 4 oz wine, or a shot of whiskey). And it's the alcohol, not
red wine tannins or somesuch, although there may be some goodness
there, too.

I found the 2003 sciam article so compelling that I started drinking a shot of
scotch before bed. I previously drank typically a glass of wine or a beer every
couple of weeks, often less. (I'm fairly fit for 60+, but I have several cardio
risk factors).

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, and I'm really doing my best not to play
one on the internet. But read the article. A library ought to have it.