Cave 1 - 3 vs Tech 1 - 3

[headhunter]

First some background. I'm planning on taking the DIR-F class when I see the schedules in my area for 2005 materialize. It looks like it will be in San Diego with Marc Hall or Mike Kane on Catalina Island depending on what fits my schedule at the time that classes are announced.

That said, I'm a little unlcear about how the progression after DIR-F is intended to go from a philosophical point of view. I'm one of these people that plans and sets short term and long term goals, so that's why I'm thinking about this now.

Is the Tech series of classes supposed to lead to the Cave series? Is it the other way around?

Or are the classes fulfilling 2 different objectives. I was reading the GUE site and saw some differences, but in flipping back and forth between course descriptions I wasn't getting a clear picture.

If one never plans to cave dive, is there no need to go through the cave classes? If one plans to cave dive is there a need to go through the tech classes or is it redundant info?

Even though I asked multiple questions here, I feel that a single answer will mostly deal with all of these questions anyway. I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from with those questions.

By the way, I do plan to cave dive someday. It will be a slow progression. Because of where I am geographically, I'll probably be wreck diving before I'm cave diving, unless I decide to learn to cave dive as preparation for wreck diving.

Thanks in advance for your answers and discussion.

Christian

 

[boomx5]

First some background. I'm planning on taking the DIR-F class when I see the schedules in my area for 2005 materialize. It looks like it will be in San Diego with Marc Hall or Mike Kane on Catalina Island depending on what fits my schedule at the time that classes are announced.

That said, I'm a little unlcear about how the progression after DIR-F is intended to go from a philosophical point of view. I'm one of these people that plans and sets short term and long term goals, so that's why I'm thinking about this now.

Is the Tech series of classes supposed to lead to the Cave series? Is it the other way around?

Or are the classes fulfilling 2 different objectives. I was reading the GUE site and saw some differences, but in flipping back and forth between course descriptions I wasn't getting a clear picture.

If one never plans to cave dive, is there no need to go through the cave classes? If one plans to cave dive is there a need to go through the tech classes or is it redundant info?

Even though I asked multiple questions here, I feel that a single answer will mostly deal with all of these questions anyway. I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from with those questions.

By the way, I do plan to cave dive someday. It will be a slow progression. Because of where I am geographically, I'll probably be wreck diving before I'm cave diving, unless I decide to learn to cave dive as preparation for wreck diving.

Thanks in advance for your answers and discussion.

Christian

The cave classes are not a prerequesite for the tech classes; or vise-versa. However, I've heard that the classes all compliment each other, but I cannot speak to that myself since I haven't taken any GUE cave training yet.

I would say because of geographic location, working your way through the tech classes (depending on your objective) would seem the most reasonable route and that's what I'm currently doing. Although, I do plan on heading down to Mexico this year for Cave1, it is not my primary objective like the tech training is.

 

[OneBrightGator]

:classic:

 

[boomx5]

:classic:

Lol...stop it Ben.

 

[detroit diver]

As Scott has said, neither is a prerequisite for one another. That said, I have been told by many that the skills learned in Cave 1 are reasons to take that class even if you' don't have the aspirations to cave dive. Seeing as though you do, I would think the next class might be the cave 1 class, followed by either RecTriox or Tech1.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

You may want to discuss this with your fundies instructor.

Good luck.

 

[headhunter]

It looks like there is no clear path and that it is a matter of preference and personal focus depending on what I want to learn first. Assuming one want to get through all 6 classes they are different roads to the same destination, if you will.

Thanks guys!

Christian

 

[headhunter]

I hope he doesn't mind that I post this. I did not ask his permission to do so, but I think that it is good info for anyone who is curious and I think it helps GUE in the long run.

Here is an answer I got from GUE Instructor Joe Talavera:

This is a tricky question to answer in some ways, very straightforward in others.

Each of the curriculums is made to stand on its own. So if you're just interested in technical diving, the tech curriculum will carry you all the way up through deep exploration diving, utilizing DPV's, multiple stages and more. The cave curriculum is made to take you in the same direction, only this time in the overhead, but again, ending up at the same endpoint. Deeper exploration, utilizing DPV's for longer dives.

Up until the tech/cave 3 point, that is. Once you aspire for those classes, you'll definitely need the extended training: in fact it's required, as per GUE's Standards and Procedures. To be Cave 3, you need to be tech 2, and to be tech 3, you need to be cave 1. This has to do with the overlap of the skills and education. Cave 3 introduces deeper (>100') cave penetrations, requiring a more fine tuned appreciation for decompression and bottle handling, while Tech 3 requires more exploration type line skills, such as a no vis exit in a timely manner, and good line handling skills.

Of course, in a non-official way, both paths benefit each other. In my own experience, Tech 1 taught me excellent problem solving skills and buoyancy skill, as well as a good foundation for deco. Cave 1 taught me good line handling work, the importance of good trim, and the importance of good light signals. Tech 2 really refined my understanding of decompression as it applies to all my diving; cave 2 taught me a new level of team in situational awareness. So, even though you may have no desire to go into the cave, the skills you learn there will improve all the diving you do.

It is certainly not redundant info. While the primary and secondary tie offs for cave and tech diving may be the same, the emphasis on each class is going to be different. Same with many topics, such as deco, buddy procedures and more. Each class is unique in that regard.

My progression was DIRF, tech 1, cave 1, cave 2, tech 2 with a bit of instructor training mixed in as well . Even though you're geographically remote, if you enjoy procedure underwater, I highly recommend it.

Joe

Christian

 

[jagfish]

Great post...
Thanks for pasting that in. Another thing to keep in mind is that GUE currently has no "wreck penetration" training, and it is my understandng that cave actually serves as general "overhead" diving skills training...

If this is correct, maybe another reason to do a GUE cave course(s), is if your future diving plans might include wreck penetrations...

JAG

 

[boomx5]

Great post...
Thanks for pasting that in. Another thing to keep in mind is that GUE currently has no "wreck penetration" training, and it is my understandng that cave actually serves as general "overhead" diving skills training...

If this is correct, maybe another reason to do a GUE cave course(s), is if your future diving plans might include wreck penetrations...

JAG

Another alternative is to take the wreck penatration workshop with AG. You won't get a c-card at the end of it...but that doesn't matter anyway since it's all about the skills you learn in the class.