Cave, cavern & wreck entry diving tips for open water divers

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Sometimes when you tell some people why they cannot or should not do something, i.e. list the reasons, etc., they have the "ammunition" to come back with all kinds of rationale as to why they can or should based on what you have just told them. At that point all you have done is given them "work arounds".

Unfortunately some people just aren't going to listen. That's why we need body recovery teams.

 

[robertarak]

Not having training is not having knowledge. It is importantand to educate divers to the risks and hazards of overhead or penetration diving. To an untrained diver, a cave or wreck may look like an easy and fun dive. When talking to new, or or even experienced divers who are unfamiliar with overhead diving I like to explain some of the hidden hazards. Even if it looks clear and light from the outside, silt can very easily be stirred up making it impossible to find the way out, for example. Sharing some examples of "easy" dive turned fatal drives the point home. I talk about the training required to make those types of dives and if they are interested, offer them a path they may follow to gain that training.

 

[DevonDiver]

Not having training is not having knowledge. It is importantand to educate divers to the risks and hazards of overhead or penetration diving... I talk about the training required to make those types of dives and if they are interested, offer them a path they may follow to gain that training.

That's exactly the point of training... but with the emphasis on 'show' rather than 'talk'.

I'd guess that 100% of my wreck students think the skills and drills sound easy when described... stick a black mask on them and it all goes pear-shaped.... throw in some simulated failures and other stressors... and most, if not all, get initially overloaded. By the end of training they 'get it'.

The same is true for silt-outs, entanglements and a host of other critical overhead problems. I'd guess that 100% of my students under-estimate what I 'talk' about... until given the chance to see..and feel.. those issues underwater. Then they start to 'get that' too...

It's much better to 'get it' in safe, controlled training... because if you encounter similar problems for real, without training, you could easily die before you have chance to 'get it'.

 

[Hawkwood]

That's exactly the point of training... but with the emphasis on 'show' rather than 'talk'.

And, if I may be so bold as to add, you can't learn everything from the internet.

 

[JamesK]

And, if I may be so bold as to add, you can't learn everything from the internet.

Why not? I know of people who did just that. Oh wait, they are dead.

 

[Cave Diver]

I am hoping for a little more than don't do it. There are real reasons why one should not do it. People don't know what they don't know and this is a chance to tell them.

I understand where you're coming from. In theory, it seems like a good idea. In practice, I'm not so sure...

There are SO MANY things that can go wrong, it's going to be difficult to identify each and every one. Add to that the fact that some overhead environments have unique hazards to a particular location and the list gets longs. Plus, as you start to list reasons, you introduce more problems.

For example: "Don't dive in that cave, because if you silt it out, it will take hours for it to settle and for you to find your way out." So instead of the OW diver heading the warning, they decide if they take a line in, like they've seen cave divers do, they'll be able to find their way out. What they don't realize is that running a line takes a bit more than just unspooling it. It takes a bit of skill and a bit of practice, and they're likely to make a mess of it and get tangled up or have it get caught on something and break.

So, an attempt to educate could actually end up causing them to become overconfident that they can handle the "situation" and end up getting them deeper in trouble.

I personally kinda favor the "Are you trained? No? Then stay the hell out until you get the training!" approach...

YMMV

---------- Post Merged at 03:39 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:23 PM ----------

How about this instead?

Reasons why you should seek training before entering an overhead:

• Overhead environments have unique hazards that open water can't adequately prepare you for.
• The surface is not an option. Problems must be solved as they occur and some of them can only be anticipated through proper training.
• Navigation is more complex than simply carrying a line. Proper choice of line, placement, use of line protocols, markers, and navigational decisions are all important.
• OE require more than just carrying redundant gas supplies. Knowing how to manage it, calculate reserves, handle failures and having contingencies for going past your turn pressure/time and make allowances for deco.
• Team communication is essential. Traveling hundreds, or thousands of feet and not being able to see where you're going or see your buddy requires an intimate knowledge of what you're doing and what is expected of each other. There are several reasons that can reduce visibility to zero and without training you won't have the skillset to handle them.

That's about all I can think to add off the top of my head.

 

[DevonDiver]

How about this instead?

Reasons why you should seek training before entering an overhead:

When it comes to novice divers, there's one issue above all else:

In Open Water: Panic can kill you, if you're unlucky.

In Overhead: Panic will kill you, no second-chances.

In a cave or wreck, you hit one single problem that you can't cope with - it's game over.

One issue invariably leads to another - a small issue with kit, leads to buoyancy issues, leads to silt-out, leads to separated team, leads to disorientation, leads to OOA.

Caves and wrecks are very unforgiving environments. Make your mistakes and learn your lessons on open water dives, then make more mistakes during overhead environment training. Once all the mistakes are made and learned from - then you're ready to walk the tightrope.

Too many people think they're ready for overhead environments because they never screwed up. If you've never screwed up, then you've never learned the lessons necessary. Training - good overhead environment training - makes you feel like a screw-up from start-to-finish. At the end of it, you know something...and you're aware of your own limitations - that's a start for entering caves or wrecks.

 

[CamG]

I am very happy with the consensus of the thread.
One thing that made very good sense to me when I was a OW diver was when if we wished to to dive outside our abilities we were put a bag over our heads and see how long we could breath.
It was a very blunt reminder of when our breathing gas runs out so do we!

A wreck environment is in terms of entanglement can be very challenging and toss silty / no vis into it you have to have mastered skill sets to survive.
I am not going to add narcosis because we are not talking about excessive depth.
The cave and wreck environment requires a level of awareness that takes a while to develop and doesn't happen overnight.
If you take the time to seek put proper instruction one of the first things you realize is what YOU DO NOT KNOW!
In the underwater environment WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW.........WILL KILL YOU!

The best trained, most experienced, flawless geared diver can still have a unforeseen issue that pushes the limits of survival.
You do not want to have one of these issues and not be trained to handle it.
The video that Wes Giles filmed to demonstrate the danger of caves is a great addition to a "sticky thread".
I have a copy of "The Cave" that Wes filmed and in the extras his dialog on the dangers of the environment are good as well.

In the end divers will venture into caves or wrecks and live to tell others.
Hopefully they seek out training and heed our advice but some will not listen; anyway.
For those who do not listen, The Reaper awaits it is a matter of time.
This is the way of natural selection.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[tstormdiver]

Training - good overhead environment training - makes you feel like a screw-up from start-to-finish. At the end of it, you know something...and you're aware of your own limitations - that's a start for entering caves or wrecks.

In my training, I finished up knowing how much I really didn't know, until I went throught the training. Once I had my certification, it was only a license to go out & learn more. Much like my OW certification at that time. It took me 2 yrs to complete my training. Some of it due to scheduling issues & some of it was that I would fail a particular part of the course. I would take the lessons learned from that failure back home & practice & hone it, until I had it mastered,.... then I would return to try again. I wittled away at it little by little.

 

[Cave Diver]

A wreck environment is in terms of entanglement can be very challenging and toss silty / no vis into it you have to have mastered skill sets to survive.

I recall reading a story a while back about a diver penetrating a wreck and his exhaust bubbles dislodged a bristleworm, which landed on the back of his neck. An incident like that would be extremely distracting and hard to prepare for and could rapidly lead to a silt out, or just disorientation about which way to go. I'd hate to have that experience with overhead training, I can't imagine what it would be like without it.