Cave Ccr Student Dies At Blue Grotto Today

[Reku]

No it's not.. please see Page 207

1. Follow a guideline simulating loss of visibility
   1. Simulating zero visibility and using touch contact, following the guideline
      
      TDI is not the only training agency but most of them are pretty close to this..
      The linke guides you to the Full Cave CCR Diver Instruktor Manual

Simulating zero viz is one thing and with ccr huds/monitors you would still be able to see your information even in silt so thick you can feel it. Using those blackout masks is almost like simulating a CCR head hardware/software failure in a sense - you can no longer see your information. Two different things. At that point the CCR is a $12,000 paper weight and it's time to abandon ship and bailout.

 

[rongoodman]

Don't be afraid doing a CCR class.. No instructor will blindfold you doing your MOD 1 up to MOD 3 but if you thing about doing Cavern or up to Full Cave it will happen don't matter if it's on CCR or OC with all instructors and throughout all agencies..

No it's not.. please see Page 207

1. Follow a guideline simulating loss of visibility
   1. Simulating zero visibility and using touch contact, following the guideline
      
      TDI is not the only training agency but most of them are pretty close to this..
      The linke guides you to the Full Cave CCR Diver Instruktor Manual

40.10 Required Skill Performance and Graduation Requirements

At NO point is the student to be unable to monitor their PO2 while on the loop. Zero visibility drills must be performed in a way that the student may monitor the status of the breathing loop; i.e. no mask but able to monitor HUD, lights out but able to use display back light to view PO2, etc. Or, the drill must be done on bailout.

 

[matt_w]

Simulating zero viz is one thing and with ccr huds/monitors you would still be able to see your information even in silt so thick you can feel it. Using those blackout masks is almost like simulating a CCR head hardware/software failure in a sense - you can no longer see your information. Two different things.

It is actually more like simulating a hardware failure and a silt-out at the same time.

Looking at the quote he provided there is nothing to indicate the student can't bail-out and still correctly finish the exercise. It seems to be compliant with the other standard quoted the instructor would have to insist on a bail-out if the student is given a blackout mask.

 

[The Chairman]

No it's not.

Sure it is. This does not contramand the directive that they should always be able to monitor their PPO2.

 

[MK1709]

Simulating zero viz is one thing and with ccr huds/monitors you would still be able to see your information even in silt so thick you can feel it. Using those blackout masks is almost like simulating a CCR head hardware/software failure in a sense - you can no longer see your information. Two different things. At that point the CCR is a $12,000 paper weight and it's time to abandon ship and bailout.

You are right.. but even wearing a blindfold it does not say you have to miss your huds it is possible have most of them close to the mask and therefore below the blindfold... blindfold are very expandables you you could have i.e. Meg & AP huds still available during zero viz scenarios.. And we remember on number one rule in CCR "Always know your PO2" followed by "In doubt.. bail out." thats why all of us went thru the training..

 

[Reku]

It is actually more like simulating a hardware failure and a silt-out at the same time.

Looking at the quote he provided there is nothing to indicate the student can't bail-out and still correctly finish the exercise. It seems to be compliant with the other standard quoted the instructor would have to insist on a bail-out if the student is given a blackout mask.

Oh obviously lol - I had a one track mind when I was writing that - responding to that particular quote - none the less you are correct. hardware failure + silt-out would suck so bad ... that would be so annoying.

 

[Storker]

One of the basic tenets of diving: You can call a dive at any time for any reason with no questions asked and no repercussions. This is in effect during your training as well as when you dive for fun.

Srsly, are all cave diving students so confident that they don't have a problem calling the dive if the instructor tells them to do something? I have a hard time believing that.

In my diving career I've p!ssed off a few guides by telling them that I won't be doing that dive thankyouverymuch, please give me something different. However, that was not in a teaching situation. Even I would probably have a pretty high threshold for telling my instructor to get stuffed.

 

[lv2dive]

You have a valid point. I know I've been in a class where the other student did not want to dive in the conditions, with a valid reason (albeit one I did not share). The instructor insisted we'd be ok, we continued, and were ok. However, the other student would not have done a non-class dive in those conditions and I knew it. Thinking back on it, I would have served him better as teammate by supporting his position.

Good conversation!

Srsly, are all cave diving students so confident that they don't have a problem calling the dive if the instructor tells them to do something? I have a hard time believing that.

In my diving career I've p!ssed off a few guides by telling them that I won't be doing that dive thankyouverymuch, please give me something different. However, that was not in a teaching situation. Even I would probably have a pretty high threshold for telling my instructor to get stuffed.

 

[The Chairman]

Srsly, are all cave diving students so confident that they don't have a problem calling the dive if the instructor tells them to do something? I have a hard time believing that.

Every time I have called a training dive, my instructor has praised my decision. That's true for both cave and CCR. I have heard instructors berate students for NOT calling a dive. It's a part of the learning curve, or at least it should be.

 

[Storker]

I wasn't talking about your ideal world. I was talking about the real world, where people aren't perfect.