Cave diving Cert Agencies

[rjack321]

maybe I've just seen enough terrible cave divers from these other agencies (and big name instructors that are supposedly fantastic) and become jaded.

Me too. I have yet to see a terrible diver come out of GUE even at the DIRF level (or UTD for that matter). Some are average or even weak (in some areas - like me for instance), but they are never scary awful.

 

[Peter Guy]

you have to be comfortable in a drysuit

Where is it required in the GUE cave course that it is done dry? I know people (or at least one person) who took GUE Cave 1 wet (and passed). While I have NOT taken any GUE class other than DIR-F, I am unaware of any requirement to take any of their classes dry. (We've often joked about doing Tech 1 in Maui just because we could dive wet!)

 

[TSandM]

GUE standards only require "exposure suit appropriate for the duration of the dive" This is true of the tech classes as well.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'd argue that beginning cave divers shouldn't be going into those places and should build up experience in a bit larger cave before taking sidemount courses anyway.

Why? Often times a BM restriction isn't a SM restriction at all... I'm not saying for a new diver to start pushing tanks in front of them...

Depending on the sidemount course, as in, if its to address sidemount restrictions and gear removal vs a simple cave course in sidemount configuration; it may not be an issue at all for a cavern diver to continue through the paces in the gear intended on being used(I sure wish I had never bothered with BM at this point). Why start learning bad habits only to swap into the right gear later?

And while GUE doesn't teach sidemount, you can take sidemount workshops from GUE instructors. Nothing stopping a GUE trained diver from taking a sidemount course from another agency either.

Is it still DIR? It would just seem to go againt(what I understand - maybe falsely) the system of standards and familiararity between divers that those GUE classes are known for... or atleast I know them for. Do those GUE guys have the experience in SM to teach a good class? Has GUE adopted a standard SM setup and how flexible is it to adapt to different environments while still sticking to a 'standard', if such a standard exists?

And while its often stated that "it isn't the agency, its the instructor", its also true that not all agencies are the same and have the same standards.

Standard of what? Gear configuration, of course not. Degree of trim and bouyancy? So GUE trained divers never busted into the bottom of silty Mill Pond caves? Conservation? GUE divers haven't dug into passages otherwise accessible by anyone in a different configuration? Land owner relations? GUE guys haven't snuck onto private property to dive sites not open to them(despite having, and still trying, to cockblock anyone from diving in the WKP)?

GUE divers have done all of this(in the last year), and so has EVERY other agency Holding the standard in training and what eventually happens outside of it will be different. Is it OK? No.

And how can a non-cave diving diver evaluate a cave instructor before taking courses without any kind of reference? Everyone usually thinks their cave instructor is the best, but not everyone can be right.

I agree completely.

 

[carrielsal]

I'd argue that beginning cave divers shouldn't be going into those places and should build up experience in a bit larger cave before taking sidemount courses anyway.

If I diver is planning on going sm anyway, why should he build up experience in backmount before switching to sm?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

FWIW, I don't have a problem with GUE or DIR, it works for lots of people. Just not everyone. I respect the accomplishments they've made(although you're not going to convince me that someone else couldn't have done it with the same access and amount of time).



I'm just saying their **** stinks, just like mine, just like anyone elses.

 

[LiteHedded]

Does the drysuit part apply to training in Mexico as well?

only if you want to use steel tanks

 

[LiteHedded]

FWIW, I don't have a problem with GUE or DIR, it works for lots of people. Just not everyone. I respect the accomplishments they've made(although you're not going to convince me that someone else couldn't have done it with the same access and amount of time).



I'm just saying their **** stinks, just like mine, just like anyone elses.

i'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying the standards are better.

<off topic>i will kind of take issue with saying others could pull it off with access and time. who else has the team to pull that off?</off topic>

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

With it available(Wakulla), who's to say that a team couldn't be put together for just that? Its kinda(exactly) what the WKPP did.

 

[lamont]

Does the drysuit part apply to training in Mexico as well?

you can take cave in a wetsuit, but you can expect to have a right post failure and lose your wing and have to swim out most of the cave.