Cavern with single tank?

[MrBigfins]

I won't issue a cavern certification to a person in doubles or sidemount anymore. If you want to take cavern in doubles, take a cave class. The temptation to go beyond the cavern zone seems to be too great for many people, this really has been a problem.

Im really dumbfounded that this seems to be as big of an issue as it seems to be. So people start training to enter and dangerous environment, meaning they understood from the start that they need proper training to do so. They start the training which lays out those dangers in greater detail, then they ignore all they know and push the envelope. Makes absolutely no sense to me.
I wanted to go straight from cavern to cave, but I was honest with myself and decided I needed more experience and to fine tune my kicks, bouyancy, and ability to handle task loading before I progressed. My instructor was willing to move foward, and I probably could have struggled through it and been at least proficient. However that's not good enough for me with the risks involved.

 

[kensuf]

I'm dumbfounded by the stuff I see on facebook too. Daily. I don't disagree with you, the way it was originally intended should work well for someone, but...

My current mindset is "do the first half of cave training, go gain some experience, come back and finish cave training when you're ready" -- basically do cavern/intro at the same time.

 

[MrBigfins]

I'm dumbfounded by the stuff I see on facebook too. Daily. I don't disagree with you, the way it was originally intended should work well for someone, but...

My current mindset is "do the first half of cave training, go gain some experience, come back and finish cave training when you're ready" -- basically do cavern/intro at the same time.

For someone with some intro to tech I think your suggestion is a good progression. However I think there is a place for a rec level cavern only cert. In my situation it gave me a foundation of solid skills to build on and I will revisit cave after my mastery of those skills improve instead of trying to master those skills while doing intro to cave or equivalent. That way when I do apprentice/intro I will be able to concentrate on the cave work instead of the basic skills. In the meantime I'm a better diver overall for having done cavern, plus I can more safely go play in the cenotes in interim.

That being said I've never felt the temptation to exceed the restrictions of my training, the desire to yes but I can wait until I'm ready and trained to do so.

 

[Manatee Diver]

That being said I've never felt the temptation to exceed the restrictions of my training, the desire to yes but I can wait until I'm ready and trained to do so.

It may be different for people who go to Mexico, but as a Florida Man I felt the temptation (though I resisted it) when I was between Cavern and Apprentice Cave. The daylight zone is so short, and the rest of the cave is just past the zone, of course I wanted to go and see the gallery again and then claw my way through the lips.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It may be different for people who go to Mexico, but as a Florida Man I felt the temptation (though I resisted it) when I was between Cavern and Apprentice Cave. The daylight zone is so short, and the rest of the cave is just past the zone, of course I wanted to go and see the gallery again and then claw my way through the lips.

I am too unfamiliar with Ginnie to remember, but the cavern zone is apparently so "short" in Devil's that I don't even recall there being one, which is why I suspect some instructors don't even bother to utilize it as a cavern training site. Is part of the Gallery really in the daylight zone? Maybe on some sunny days at certain times? The uncertainty in where the cavern zone ends and the real cave begins is part of the problem.

 

[tbone1004]

For someone with some intro to tech I think your suggestion is a good progression. However I think there is a place for a rec level cavern only cert. In my situation it gave me a foundation of solid skills to build on and I will revisit cave after my mastery of those skills improve instead of trying to master those skills while doing intro to cave or equivalent. That way when I do apprentice/intro I will be able to concentrate on the cave work instead of the basic skills. In the meantime I'm a better diver overall for having done cavern, plus I can more safely go play in the cenotes in interim.

That being said I've never felt the temptation to exceed the restrictions of my training, the desire to yes but I can wait until I'm ready and trained to do so.

you misunderstood what @kensuf said.
He is a proponent of teaching cavern as a recreational course. He said he will not teach cavern in doubles/sidemount. If you want to use cavern as your intro to tech course, but take it in a single tank, no problem. If you want to take cavern in doubles? You're signing up for cavern/intro together.

 

[MichaelMc]

There was an older 'single tank cavern' discussion. Maybe Will TDI shift to new cave training model?, but I thought there was a longer one.

There are still two very useful general paths (as I sort this more myself):
* single cavern -> (ITT) -> intro
* (ITT) -> intro (but not get card) -> (intro and get card)
One gives you a cavern card, one doesn't. Which might not matter much in this hemisphere.

As a sidemount diver, I can learn key overhead skills from a single backmount cavern class. Being in or out of sidemount likely doesn't affect them. It seems like that would be the same for someone already in doubles. So single cavern is still helpful for learning, if jumping to cave is unappealing, even as someone already in doubles. There is even a bit less on the agenda as it removes dealing with doubles.

For the OP, I'd do single cavern with the friend. You'll likely learn a lot and it will put you in better shape for any guided Cenote dives, and for intro cave.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I am too unfamiliar with Ginnie to remember, but the cavern zone is apparently so "short" in Devil's that I don't even recall there being one, which is why I suspect some instructors don't even bother to utilize it as a cavern training site. Is part of the Gallery really in the daylight zone? Maybe on some sunny days at certain times? The uncertainty in where the cavern zone ends and the real cave begins is part of the problem.

I would say probably 10-20 feet depending on how tannic the river water is. But it certainly isn't the hour long dives that you see in Mexico. In my opinion about the only cavern zones that actually have a lot of area are Paradise, follow by Ginnie, Blue Grotto and then Devil's Den.

 

[kensuf]

I would say probably 10-20 feet depending on how tannic the river water is. But it certainly isn't the hour long dives that you see in Mexico. In my opinion about the only cavern zones that actually have a lot of area are Paradise, follow by Ginnie, Blue Grotto and then Devil's Den.

Lower Orange Grove is one of the prettiest caverns and you can do a nice 20-30 minute dive in there. Dive time is limited by depth though.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Lower Orange Grove is one of the prettiest caverns and you can do a nice 20-30 minute dive in there. Dive time is limited by depth though.

I've only done Orange Grove once, but it is on my "Must visit before the Flood comes" list.