CESA - why? I'll never run low on air!

[limeyx]

I see this thread has outlived its usefulness...
Rick

Agreed. it will always be possible to come up with a "million to one" situation where so much stuff goes wrong that you cannot possibly plan for it.

Sometimes it just isn't your day and you are in the "OMG" category.

 

[limeyx]

Or better, non-inhaling, non-breath holding, exhaling bolt and pray.

To rip off somebody else's quote "Controlled Emergency Screaming Ascent"

 

[Diveral]

To rip off somebody else's quote "Controlled Emergency Screaming Ascent"

That's funny. I find that screaming ohhh! sh_____t while I'm coming up keeps the airway nice and open. Most people forget that closing the airway while under water is the natural human reflex. It's as natural as the gag reflex. It takes awareness and training to keep it open when you are going against the reflex. When you are task loaded in an emergency and performing a CESA is not the time to be trying to figure it out. There's a difference in reading about it or watching that 15 second caution statement on the DVD and actually practicing it. If that statement in the book or video is all that you know when you find yourself in that rare situation where you are attempting it 5 to 10 years later, thats not good.

It's funny you've got the old timers like Rick, Thalassamania, and Dr. Bill, the immediate following generation that they taught which includes me, and the solo divers all strongly believing that CESA is a valid tool in the scuba kit. That is a lot of water over the fins right there. I've practiced multiple CESA's. I've done it from 92 feet. I know that for me it's no sweat from 60 feet. That's why I don't wear a pony while soloing in the quarry's or the Keys or the Bahamas. I can CESA if the shyte hits the fan. But I'm also a freediver and 30' is an easy depth for me to hit while freediving. If I've got a friend diving then I've been know to take a hit or two off of the octopus to extend my freedive or get more depth. You do that you got to keep that airway open on the way up. Something we practiced many times in that old YMCA scuba course. So I've practiced these skills many, many times over the years and I know I can do it safely.

If I'm doing a deep wreck penetration then I've got the big tank on, have redundant air, have a lot of redundant gear and am diving with a dependable buddy. When I'm inside the wreck or if I've exited with a deco obligation then CESA is not a valid option and we plan accordingly. If I find myself in one of those medical situations Rick was talking about then I'm going to take my chances.

If you are diving and you suffer a sudden traumatic injury, say a wayward spear shoots through your femoral artery. This is a survivable injury but you are going to bleed out in about 4 minutes. If you can be on that boat in about 2 minutes and if there is someone there skilled in First Response or basic first aid that can hit that pressure point and treat that bleed then there's a very good chance that you will survive. What's your chance if you take that 6 minute ascent?

 

[fisherdvm]

"Oh, sh........................................" sounds like a good idea. Can never remember what sylible to use, so I'll remember that when I sh..... my pants.

Now second reason to use "Sh..... ". You really have to try this at home.

Say "aaaaaaaa" till you run out of air with a time piece. Write down how many seconds it took till you run out of air.

Say "Ohsh...i.....i.....t...........", till you run out of air.

The second method allow you to do a much much longer CESA than the first.

 

[fisherdvm]

http://www.divealive.org/

This is the initiative to save lives in divers by Florida.

The A in alive is for "Air" - return to the surface with at least 500, the NEED TO PRACTICE CESA, and availability of an alternate regulator (your buddy's I hope).

 

[String]

http://www.divealive.org/

This is the initiative to save lives in divers by Florida.

The A in alive is for "Air" - return to the surface with at least 500, the NEED TO PRACTICE CESA, and availability of an alternate regulator (your buddy's I hope).

If they're pushing bolt and pray over modern day safer and more effective practices they've just lost any respect i might have for them.

People should be pointing out its never needed and simply aborting straight up without breathing is NOT a viable escape plan not encouraging it.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... aborting straight up without breathing is NOT a viable escape plan ...

That is true.
That is also not a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA).
Have you read any of this thread? Start with post one.
I have never, ever, ever said anything to suggest you should ascend "without breathing."
You made that up all on your own.
Until you understand how to do a CESA correctly (breathing) you'll never understand the program.
Rick

 

[Diveral]

"Oh, sh........................................" sounds like a good idea. Can never remember what sylible to use, so I'll remember that when I sh..... my pants.

Now second reason to use "Sh..... ". You really have to try this at home.

Say "aaaaaaaa" till you run out of air with a time piece. Write down how many seconds it took till you run out of air.

Say "Ohsh...i.....i.....t...........", till you run out of air.

The second method allow you to do a much much longer CESA than the first.

I like it! A true technical analysis and I just tried it and you are right. That syllable uses less air and you can sustain it longer. That may be the reason that 92 footer was successful when most of my deeper practice runs were from 32 to 60 feet. That was what I was saying on the way up.

Anyone who is saying that there is never ever a legitimate valid reason for a CESA with modern diving techniques is selling pie in the sky. I agree that modern techniques and good buddy skills can eliminate most of the reasons for ever considering a CESA but its not going to eliminate everyone of them. You are always going to have that one outlier that going to toss a spanner in the works. It may never happen to you but it's going to happen to someone, sometime, somewhere, and a CESA is going to provide the best chance for survival. Also CESA needs to be in the solo diver toolkit. If you are solo diving that is your ultimate bail out bottle unless you have grown gills.

Now I've borrowed some of the DIR techniques and philosophy for my deep wreck penetrations and I'll admit that it has made me a better and safer wreck diver. Maybe some of you DIR guys can admit that there may be some validity in some of the stuff us solo divers are saying for situations that are outside your envelope.

Peace,
AL

 

[TeddyDiver]

I didn't read the whole thread throw so please forgive me if this have been mentioned before.
One more reason to cope CESA or ESA is when your buddy suffers a trauma, maybe one Rick stated in the original post and freeks out whiping your regs etc. There's just enough to do holding the victim, his/her reg in place etc while ascending that trying to recover your own reg is not on the top of priority.

Another thing about the CESA, ESA whatevernameweuse is that during the emergency ascend situations can change, and so can we change from one method to more propriate one...

 

[String]

That is true.
That is also not a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent (CESA).
Have you read any of this thread? Start with post one.
I have never, ever, ever said anything to suggest you should ascend "without breathing."
You made that up all on your own.
Until you understand how to do a CESA correctly (breathing) you'll never understand the program.
Rick

Aborting straight up without breathing is by definition a CESA. It means ignoring any chance of air on the bottom, bolting for the surface hoping you keep the rate low and dont run out of breath before you hit the top.

"Breathing" here i mean in and out. Purely out is just blowing not full breathing.

Likewise an ascent while breathing is NOT a cesa. Its just a bog standard normal ascent. Maybe more rapid than normal for whatever reason but its still a normal ascent.

In not one of your scenarios have you put forward a case for ascending while not breathing from the perfectly good tank on your back.