Classes to be a great well rounded diver?

[Zef]

This is just false. From the PADI digital instructor manual:

For Advanced Open Water Diver, student divers meet performance requirements:
• Complete five Adventure Dives including Deep and Underwater Navigation.
• Complete the five Knowledge Reviews for the completed Adventure Dives.
• Complete Thinking Like a Diver Knowledge Development section.

IIRC, you can be credited with some dives if you have the specialty, but you can't for example take Deep Diver for credit in AOW, because AOW (or adventure) is required before you take Deep, anyone can check that here.

SSI, I believe is a collection of specialty courses that you take to earn AOW. I agree with you that PADI is not the end all be all, it's much more about the instructor, but as a professional, you have access to the instructor manual and people expect that what you say is going to be factual.

You are correct...i confused the format for PADI advanced with SSI.

I will say that overall I have found the classroom/knowledge aspect of NAUI courses to be more in depth and informative than PADI courses and material.

The reality is that a lot is contingent on the quality of the instructor and whether thr students are looking to learn or just check boxes.

The major advantage of NAUI advanced is the recognized depth limit compared to PADI which requires another class to be recgnized as capable of diving that last 10 meters of the recreational depth limit.

The problem with CMAS is, the last time I checked, one would be hard pressed to find a CMAS instructor in the US.

-Z

 

[Zef]

I only have experience W PADI, main reason is 80 mile drive for me to a non PADI shop. With PADI being the only option at both LDS and the local university(same instructor) it's not surprising almost everybody in my area is kinda locked into PADI. For me to do training that's non PADI it really requires overnight trips. I'm more than willing to travel to Monterey for training but I don't think most people have the flexibility I do, or even the desire.

You either do what needs to be done to get quality well rounded instruction or settle for what is convenient....perhaps what is convenient is wuality well rounded instruction, but one will never know if they dont venture out of their backyard.

The reality is, that ine does not need anything beyond basic open water to begin accumulating experience unless they plan to dive with a commercial operation.

The 3 courses I recommend are open water, advanced, and nitrox.

Open water unlocks the door to the world of scuba.

Advanced unlocks depth limits if diving with a commercial op

Nitrox, while informative, will permit one to obtain nitrox fills...if there is no plan to dive nitrox then skip this until the plan changes...for me this was the best $95 I spent on diving as it broadened my understanding of depth limits and how are affected by the gas we breathe.

There are folks who lump rescue in there too...whether rescue is of value is even more dependent on the quality of instructor and whether they really know what they are doing with regards to rescue technique.

-Z

 

[Storker]

whether rescue is of value is even more dependent on the quality of instructor and whether they really know what they are doing with regards to rescue technique.

Perhaps my local diving community has been exceptionally lucky with the level of the Rescue instructors working around here. Perhaps your diving community has been exceptionally unlucky with the level of the Rescue instructors working around there.

But everyone I've talked to in my local community see their Rescue class as the most useful diving class they ever did. Because IME, Rescue teaches you to look forward, doing fairly proper risk assessments before the dive. Which OW or AOW don't. At least not properly.

 

[ginti]

deleted, sorry

 

[Zef]

Perhaps my local diving community has been exceptionally lucky with the level of the Rescue instructors working around here. Perhaps your diving community has been exceptionally unlucky with the level of the Rescue instructors working around there.

But everyone I've talked to in my local community see their Rescue class as the most useful diving class they ever did. Because IME, Rescue teaches you to look forward, doing fairly proper risk assessments before the dive. Which OW or AOW don't. At least not properly.

Not all instructors are created equally.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Not all instructors are created equally.

Yeah. I contacted an instructor in Taiwan after he advertised for some dives on an island he lives on. He actually worked in Asia for a dive center I dive at. Anyway I know the marine life isn't the best but I'm like OK I want to get in the water. Instructor tells me his dives are 45 minutes. I am like excuse me!!!! I'm not paying for 45 minute dives especially in MOD 20m - 30m. He explained that with his over 2000 dives he can barely manage an hours dive. He's teaches as well.

I'm like that's just sad. He contacted his old boss and some of the other instructors where he worked before and got the thumbs up on diving with me. I really feel this guy should do three or 4 days of diving with me so I can help him with his air consumption. I really believe he just has bad diving practices. Anyway I'm going to make him an offer... spend 4 days and 14 dives and I will help him improve and still pay him for being my "guide"

Still it makes me wonder how can he have 2000 dives and still be so poor on air. I think he has poor diving skills maybe. I'm not trying to sound arrogant but I have dived with many "instructors" who come to Asia go from OW to Instructor asap then continue on their Asia diving adventure where they can be paid and get free dives in. Some of them I would never have let my son be taught by and yet I met many who live in Asia who are great instructors.

Our FB chat....

XXXXXX told me that you're really good underwater

You sent Yesterday at 17:35
35 years of diving does that for you lol

You sent Yesterday at 17:36
I weigh 130kg so people think I will be the first out of air but " xxxx guide" and I are similar on air he's a better though we usually only around 5 - 10 bar difference each dive

xxxx sent Yesterday at 17:37 I remember xxxx was better than me for that, I didn't dive much with him as he was guide and me mostly teaching

You sent Yesterday at 17:37
my UK dive buddy around same as I am on air as well but your ex boss can do the 70 min dive times from the wreck

xxxx sent Yesterday at 17:59
yeah he told me that as well, they was very surprised on your air consumption. I dove more than 2000 times but still struggling to stay more than an hour

 

[Diving Dubai]

CMAS' version of DM, satisfies the same ISO standard as PADI DM, but a good 3* class will improve you as a diver as well.

Both the CMAS Dive Leader course and the PADI DM are in my view complimentary courses I'm qualified in both, my DL was carried out under BSAC, which while not CAMS affiliated their curriculum is close enough in this context . Each has element focus that the other does not.

Dive Leader has really good focus on dive organisation, preparation and planning in the context of organising a dive for a group or outside the confines of a shop where you turn up and everything is done for you. I actually embed a lot of the DL course as additional info and learning within my DM teaching as it applies to my local area especially tides and currents which might not be as applicable if you're only diving inland waters

DM of course has a heavy focus of basic skills so you can assist an instructor. When I took my DM I had no intention of ever becoming an instructor so my initial thoughts were that teh skill section was a part that just needed to be completed. I was wrong. The Skills circuit is the first time since OW that your skills are formally tested as part of training I was surprised how my much my skills had deteriorated and what I'd forgotten (even though at the time I considered myself an experienced diver.

I learned a lot from my 3* course. If you haven't crossed over before you enroll a 3* class, you need PADI Rescue to start

If someone has only completed PADI there maybe further knowledge reviews they need to undertake to bring them to the same level as a 2* in items not covered by the PADI system. Back gas deco is one that springs to mind

In my case I needed to study and understand the BSAC 88 tables

 

[Storker]

If someone has only completed PADI there maybe further knowledge reviews they need to undertake to bring them to the same level as a 2* in items not covered by the PADI system. Back gas deco is one that springs to mind

In my case I needed to study and understand the BSAC 88 tables

In my national curriculum, 2* doesn't qualify you for any staged deco. Light backgas deco is for the 3* class, and during class it's of course only simulated.

But our tables are the same, whether they're used exclusively for no-stop diving on 1* and 2* level, or if they're used for staged deco diving on 3* level.