Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[TMHeimer]

So, back on topic, I wonder what success would look like, and how one could measure it? Would the success be, for a random diver to be able to ensure they can arrange to have a good buddy for any of their planned dives, 95% of the time? Would that be too much to hope for, too little to claim success, or not even the right way to think about it?

I've addressed this previously. I guess I've been a customer on 20-30 charters over 9 years and buddied with maybe a dozen (if that) people on shore dives. I would say that a larger % were what I would label good buddies than not. But especially with the charters, many of us "single" divers have little opportunity to pick our buddies ahead of time. My question from way back-- you get a sub par buddy on a charter--do you dive or not? Money back? Suppose the diver talks a good game but after dive #1 the truth about him surfaces. What about dive 2? Solo? Ask onto a threesome (IF available)? Go with the DM (a charge?)? I feel self reliant and reasonably comfortable going solo, particularly if other divers are in the area. Suppose you don't?

 

[drrich2]

My question from way back-- you get a sub par buddy on a charter--do you dive or not? Money back? Suppose the diver talks a good game but after dive #1 the truth about him surfaces. What about dive 2? Solo? Ask onto a threesome (IF available)? Go with the DM (a charge?)?

For the main diving I do, which is oceanic, tropical, high viz. (50 ft+), either mild currents or a planned drift dive, guided (except shore diving Bonaire), generally with a small group following a scuba tour guide...

If the buddy goes off, that's one less thing I need to worry about, so fine & dandy. I stick pretty close to the guide anyway, and the rest of the group is around, so in the highly unlikely event I had an OOA event, getting to help should not be that hard, and I've got 2 separate cutting tools in different locations & don't do penetration diving.

Now, if you changed the parameters - take up tech. diving, deep diving a strange wreck the 1st time in an unknown situation, or if I'm dependent on this buddy to navigate the area, such that I anticipate a reasonable probability of requiring assistance, or being responsible to provide such assistance, then I reserve the right to change my answer depending on the specific scenario.

No, I don't demand my money back, demand a different buddy, complain to the boat staff, berate the buddy or otherwise make a scene, etc...

Richard.

 

[JohnN]

For the main diving I do, which is oceanic, tropical, high viz. (50 ft+), either mild currents or a planned drift dive, guided (except shore diving Bonaire), generally with a small group following a scuba tour guide...

If the buddy goes off, that's one less thing I need to worry about, so fine & dandy. I stick pretty close to the guide anyway, and the rest of the group is around, so in the highly unlikely event I had an OOA event, getting to help should not be that hard, and I've got 2 separate cutting tools in different locations & don't do penetration diving.

Now, if you changed the parameters - take up tech. diving, deep diving a strange wreck the 1st time in an unknown situation, or if I'm dependent on this buddy to navigate the area, such that I anticipate a reasonable probability of requiring assistance, or being responsible to provide such assistance, then I reserve the right to change my answer depending on the specific scenario.

No, I don't demand my money back, demand a different buddy, complain to the boat staff, berate the buddy or otherwise make a scene, etc...

Richard.

Or carry a 19 cft pony. If your buddy sticks with you, that's great. If they bug out, great, you're covered. A 19 cft tank fits easily into your luggage and once you're in the water you won't notice its there. Off a boat, it's a no-brainer.

As a point of reference, my last dives were on a popular 6-pack on Hood Canal (WA). Only five divers, three Boy Scouts (I was/am an Eagle scout for reference) and a DM who was baby-sitting them, and me.

Not a surprise that one of the young men got cold and ended early (went back to the boat), one hoovered through his air quickly (I'm told). I would have been massively bummed if I was paired up with one of these fine young men or as part of the group of four.

As it was, I had that pony, I solo'd from the start, got a couple "reasonable" pictures, popped my DSMB (I'm crap at holding a stop in bad vis without some reference) at the end and had a nice ~60 minute dive. Would I have been permanently traumatized if I lost a dive? Probably not, but its hard for me to get the time, its a 6+ hour drive (round trip) and (as previously noted) I'm a selfish pig

 

[TMHeimer]

I do agree with drrich2 and JohnN in that I take a similar attitude and actions. I guess many agree that it's just not possible to always be with a good buddy, and that if you want to do what may be the only charter available (or the only one that meets your time frame), you take who you get and make the best of it.

 

[TSandM]

I don't feel that I make any sacrifices. Maybe you might consider that I made some way back at the beginning, if you consider the practice I put in to bring my skills up to be a sacrifice. I mostly thought it was fun.

I like the gear I dive. I can't think of why I would want to change it. I like the dives I do. If I'm diving with a similar buddy, I don't spend much energy at all keeping the team together, because my buddy is carrying half of that load, and with good skills, it isn't much of a load to begin with. As I described, Kathryn and I spent two hours wandering around and taking photographs. Some of mine even came out pretty nice, which suggests I wasn't spending all my time "trying to keep a team together".

Honestly -- all having a good buddy dive requires is some decent basic diving skills and a commitment on the part of both people to, as my friend HBDiveGirl would put it, "Dive to stay found". Don't take off anywhere without your buddy. Keep yourself where you can be seen. Don't violate the parameters of the dive plan. Is that so hard?

 

[PfcAJ]

Is that so hard?

Its not hard at ALL.

People don't get smarter underwater, and it would appear that people don't even have a basic conversation about expectations before they submerge. The 'system' is set for failure before the diver even puts his tank on.

 

[kr2y5]

So, to recap, an individual diver, who wants to make sure to have a good buddy for the upcoming dive, has the following portfolio of strategies at his/her disposal. The question is, do all these strategies complement each other, and can the entire portfolio reliably work for almost every diver, almost all the time? If yes, then I don't think the buddy system is in trouble... if not, are there any other strategies that could be added?

1) Use your GUE certification to gain access to a pool of GUE divers, and just buddy up with one. This works, since GUE training produces predictably decent buddies, and we can also assume that some GUE divers will likely to be diving at the same site, at the same time, so there will almost always be someone to buddy up with. The main limitation is that, you have to be GUE certified yourself, most people are not, and some people cannot be, for a variety of reasons: either it is too costly, or there is no local instructor, or they are not fit enough, or have physical limitations and cannot dive back-mount, etc.

2) Pay a dive guide to be your buddy. This works, because DM/instructor training produces predictably decent buddies. The limitation is that there might not be a guide available to hire at each site, e.g., for local shore dives, although that's probably not an issue in most major scuba destinations. Still, probably most people cannot afford to rely on this strategy except every once in while.

3) Not pay for a dive guide, and just use the free "group" guide as your buddy. The main limitation is that a "group" guide is not always available, even where a paid guide might be, and even if there is one, you have much less flexibility in how you might want to dive, you just have to follow the group. For some people, this may be too constraining.

4) Have a large enough pool of non-GUE regular buddies that you know well. This works for some, doesn't for others. The limitation is that your regular buddies aren't always traveling with you, or don't want to dive at the same site, and the same time, or you don't have any regular buddies to begin with. If your spouse is not a diver, or there are not enough divers in your area, you cannot rely on this.

5) Carefully pick an instabuddy, and attempt to transform them into a good buddy by negotiating the dive protocols before the dive. This is a hit and miss. The main limitation is that the instabuddy might not have the right skills, or attitude, to behave as expected.

 

[flots am]

There's also #6: Become self-sufficient, self-rescuing and dive solo. You can even dive solo in a mob dive if you like.

I've become much calmer (and safer) underwater since I started planning to be able to save my own bacon and not rely on anybody.

This is as useful a tool when diving with a buddy as without.

flots.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No, take out the variables through extremely regimented training in a dogmatic system of standardized skills, equipment, and configuration and get divers onboard with the idea that their dive has to involve significant focus on maintaining team...and the buddy system merely becomes capable of delivering the redundancy it's supposed to deliver in the first place. Wheee! Whether that's "fabulous" is largely going to turn on what the diver is willing to sacrifice before and during each dive, and their interests.

I and plenty of others prefer carrying our own redundancies, which allows the freedom of not having to worry about anyone but ourselves while in the water and being able to focus on whatever's brought us there in the first place. Not to mention allowing for significantly greater flexibility in optimizing techniques and gear configuration, because we're not trying to match the lowest common denominator to maintain coherence to random instabuddies.

Buddy/team diving can work well. It is never sacrifice-free, nor are the sacrifices simply a matter of spending the time necessary to become an excellent diver.

... but what you say is generally true of the "self-sufficiency system" as well. There are no free lunches. No matter what "system" you choose, you either need to adopt a regimen and the self-discipline to follow it or you can simply go through the motions and fool yourself into believing that it somehow works for you ... the latter is as common among "self-sufficient" divers as it is among those who dive with a buddy ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added October 9th, 2014 at 05:27 AM ----------

1) Use your GUE certification to gain access to a pool of GUE divers, and just buddy up with one. This works, since GUE training produces predictably decent buddies, and we can also assume that some GUE divers will likely to be diving at the same site, at the same time, so there will almost always be someone to buddy up with. The main limitation is that, you have to be GUE certified yourself, most people are not, and some people cannot be, for a variety of reasons: either it is too costly, or there is no local instructor, or they are not fit enough, or have physical limitations and cannot dive back-mount, etc.

Just to toss a little practical reality into the conversation, I'm going to point out that having DIR training, or buying into the team diving concept, doesn't automatically get you a dive buddy on a boatload of other DIR-trained divers. Even when they KNOW you're a good diver and perfectly capable of integrating into the team comfortably, DIR training conditions people to prefer to dive with "alpha" buddies ... people they're used to diving with.

I've been on several charters and liveaboards that were predominantly DIR (either GUE or UTD trained), including the one I just came off of last week ... and if they bring a buddy, they dive with that buddy pretty much exclusively. The notion that they will somehow welcome you into their buddy team hasn't generally proven to be the case. I'm not even sure it's a conscious decision ... I tend to think it's just a side-effect of the mentality of team training to be more comfortable with people you're familiar diving with. If I'm on a boat that's 90% DIR, I generally find myself diving with someone from the 10% group, because they're the ones who are more accepting of an "outsider".

The theory of seamless integration is great ... but in practice, the mental approach usually produces divers who are more comfortable diving with their alpha buddies pretty much exclusively ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added October 9th, 2014 at 05:29 AM ----------

There's also #6: Become self-sufficient, self-rescuing and dive solo. You can even dive solo in a mob dive if you like.

I've become much calmer (and safer) underwater since I started planning to be able to save my own bacon and not rely on anybody.

This is as useful a tool when diving with a buddy as without.

flots.

I also prefer this approach to "begging" for a buddy ... particularly when the skill set of that buddy is unknown. I love solo diving ... mainly because I find it more relaxing and enjoyable than diving with someone else. Unfortunately, the predominant thought among dive ops is that solo diving is "dangerous" ... and they don't allow it. At that point, you pretty much have to follow the house rules ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kharon]

... in fact I am being absolutly serious. Kharon, your point reinforced this.

How - I don't see that at all.