Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[The Chairman]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Lots of snarky off topic posts removed.

Please be kind!

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[ev780]

There's also #6: Become self-sufficient, self-rescuing and dive solo. You can even dive solo in a mob dive if you like.

I've become much calmer (and safer) underwater since I started planning to be able to save my own bacon and not rely on anybody.

This is as useful a tool when diving with a buddy as without.

flots.

Yeah that!!!!


#Killthebuddysystem

 

[EFX]

How - I don't see that at all.

The moderator killed my original post so I'll summarize here and I promise not to be snarky. My one-liner that got it all started was "BTW, there is no such thing as 'solo' diving." My followup reply to NWGratefulDiver's request to explain myself was that we are our own buddies even though we dive alone. You took it to mean that I don't believe people dive alone. I do believe it because I do solo dives according to the everyday usage of the term as you understand it. Consider this phrase: "We can be our own best friend." Let's change it slightly to "We can be our own best buddy." Let's further change it to "We can be our own best dive buddy." As solo divers we need to plan our dive and dive our plan. Everything that's been said regarding what a good buddy should do can be carried over to solo divers -- the focus, the commitment, etc. When an instabuddy becomes a bad buddy you are solo diving but as I already explained you are not without a buddy. Your options may be limited but if you care to accept it and you mentally prepare then you can reduce some of the risks.

---------- Post added October 9th, 2014 at 11:26 AM ----------

I've addressed this previously. I guess I've been a customer on 20-30 charters over 9 years and buddied with maybe a dozen (if that) people on shore dives. I would say that a larger % were what I would label good buddies than not. But especially with the charters, many of us "single" divers have little opportunity to pick our buddies ahead of time. My question from way back-- you get a sub par buddy on a charter--do you dive or not? Money back? Suppose the diver talks a good game but after dive #1 the truth about him surfaces. What about dive 2? Solo? Ask onto a threesome (IF available)? Go with the DM (a charge?)? I feel self reliant and reasonably comfortable going solo, particularly if other divers are in the area. Suppose you don't?

I've had similar experiences as you and have had great instabuddies and bad ones and everything in between. I'm usually alone when I book charters so like you I'm at the mercy of the captain or DM when I get a buddy assigned. Some people might say 'Why don't you ask the DM if you can be assigned an appropriate buddy.' This is awkward for me and I've never done it. My attitude is that I will accept whatever buddy is given to me and will work to make the dive the best it can be. Fortunately, out of the 20+ charters I've done only two charters were bad ones. One, which I went into considerable detail in another thread was the 12 minute wreck dive with a 1 month experienced diver followed by a dive where we lost sight of the wreck and then I got hurt getting on the boat. The other charter I was with a hotshot (he was AOW) diving on a Halcyon hog system and he was faster than I wanted to be but I kept up anyway. This was followed by a shallow reef dive with the same hotshot buddy who called the dive early. His explanation was that he was bored and there was nothing else to see so why continue. I've learned to take the bad with the good.

I've never felt the need to ask for money back. I find it very awkward to ask the DM for another buddy. No matter how diplomatically you handle it what are you going to tell your buddy? Sorry I can't dive with you because .... That's to awkward and I won't do it. And besides, someone else gets stuck with the bad buddy. I would sweet talk the buddy and hopefully the second dive would be better.

Solo diving? I was solo rated fairly recently so this becomes an option but not all charters will allow it. I don't say anything and leave it up to the DM's to assign me a buddy. They say we can't let you solo dive so they assign me to a buddy pair which is fine for me. If they don't assign me I mention I don't have a buddy. I would rather not solo since I don't have a redundant air supply. In that case the DM will have to dive with me. In the case where there's one DM and he has to remain on the boat then I'll solo if they'll permit it. If I end up solo I may find other divers and stay close or I'll adjust my dive plan to be more conservative and remain alone. If it's a DM led dive with the entire group then the group becomes my buddy. Whatever the case I'm not paying extra. If there's an issue then the operator should have sorted it out before we left shore. Either way it's on them. One way or another I'm diving.

There has never been a situation where I wasn't assigned to a buddy (team or a DM). You might be wondering what would possibly prevent me from getting assigned a buddy. Although it hasn't happened another buddy pair may reject an additional diver. Or, a more likely scenario is all the other divers are students with instructors doing classes. The last thing they want is a tag-along who interferes with the class. For the last case I would say I'll stay at a safe distance and not interfere with the class. As you can see I'm very easy going and flexible enough to adjust my dive plan in or out of the water to accept any situation I might encounter.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

... but what you say is generally true of the "self-sufficiency system" as well. There are no free lunches. No matter what "system" you choose, you either need to adopt a regimen and the self-discipline to follow it or you can simply go through the motions and fool yourself into believing that it somehow works for you ... the latter is as common among "self-sufficient" divers as it is among those who dive with a buddy ...

Kindly try to make sense, rather than simply stating a conclusion. The fact is that while solo diving, you have one or two less human variables to worry about and you don't need to worry about whether your buddy/team understands your gear or potential responses to problems: in short, you don't have to think about a buddy/team while you're doing whatever it is you're doing. In TS&M's example of a pair of photographers ambling around a reef, thinking about your buddy won't affect your dive much (unless something happens to them).

Working your way through a large, messy wreck OTOH, requires dedicating a lot more bandwidth to the 'gee, there are other divers in here with me and how do we do this?' aspect. Solo, you simply don't have to think about whether your fatter teammate can pass that next restricted hatch, for example. The dive cannot be interrupted or interfered with because a buddy has a problem or there's a communication issue. Simply putting a second person in that kind of environment even with excellent communication and buddy training is not a simple, trade-off-less matter. The great advantage of solo is that not only is there only one physical presence in the water, you're directly wired into the only mental presence in the water...communication can't get better than that.

Diving solo has its sacrifices, too. But they're limited to the hassle of needing to carry all of one's own redundancies and the fact that some rare medical or other catastrophic events might be survivable with a buddy while for a solo diver they surely would not be.

 

[TMHeimer]

EFX, We have the same approach to the problem.

 

[kr2y5]

My followup reply to NWGratefulDiver's request to explain myself was that we are our own buddies even though we dive alone.

Unless you have 2 independent brains connected to 2 independent cardio-vascular systems, and the ability to crawl out of your skin to free yourself from entanglement, the "real" buddy system provides strictly more redundancy than solo diving can ever provide. So, while I am a huge believer in the value of solo training, and I firmly intend to become solo-trained myself, I do not think your claim is valid.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Kindly try to make sense, rather than simply stating a conclusion.

Kindly try to make your point without the condescension. I not only made sense ... you somehow managed (without realizing it, apparently) to rephrase what I said.

Skipping your particular examples ...

Diving solo has its sacrifices, too. But they're limited to the hassle of needing to carry all of one's own redundancies and the fact that some rare medical or other catastrophic events might be survivable with a buddy while for a solo diver they surely would not be.

... was my point, although your version is a bit more simplistic than I'd put it. There's more than redundancy needed, unless you just want to fool yourself into thinking you can handle anything. A bit more awareness and self-discipline will help you avoid some of the situations that you might otherwise risk if you had a buddy around to help you out of potential problems ... entanglements, for example.

Then again, it boils down to what your expectations of a dive buddy would be ... mine tend more toward competence and communication than the blundering idiots that so many of you worry you might have to dive with ... I tend to avoid diving with those types of "buddies" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added October 9th, 2014 at 01:43 PM ----------

Unless you have 2 independent brains connected to 2 independent cardio-vascular systems, and the ability to crawl out of your skin to free yourself from entanglement, the "real" buddy system provides strictly more redundancy than solo diving can ever provide. So, while I am a huge believer in the value of solo training, and I firmly intend to become solo-trained myself, I do not think your claim is valid.

... without those redundant brains, an increased effort to maintain an awareness of what's going on around you, your surroundings (particularly in overheads and areas where entanglement is likely), and a tendency toward a more conservative dive profile seems prudent when solo diving. In other words, from a risk management perspective, two competent divers diving as a team can achieve more with less risk than one competent solo diver can achieve ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TMHeimer]

Unless you have 2 independent brains connected to 2 independent cardio-vascular systems, and the ability to crawl out of your skin to free yourself from entanglement, the "real" buddy system provides strictly more redundancy than solo diving can ever provide. So, while I am a huge believer in the value of solo training, and I firmly intend to become solo-trained myself, I do not think your claim is valid.

Agree with you and Bob that diving with a competent buddy reduces risks of solo diving and allows a bit more leeway to do things you may not do solo. Unfortunately some of us find ourselves on charters unable to avoid being buddied with the blundering idiot.

 

[EFX]

My followup reply to NWGratefulDiver's request to explain myself was that we are our own buddies even though we dive alone.

Unless you have 2 independent brains connected to 2 independent cardio-vascular systems, and the ability to crawl out of your skin to free yourself from entanglement, the "real" buddy system provides strictly more redundancy than solo diving can ever provide. So, while I am a huge believer in the value of solo training, and I firmly intend to become solo-trained myself, I do not think your claim is valid.

I never said that everything a "real" buddy pair can do can be transferred to a solo diver. Obviously, two heads are better than one although that is debateable in some circumstances. The things that are the same are the committment, the focus, the planning and execution of the dive plan. In the original context some posters were claiming that solo diving is better than the buddy system, especially when the instabuddy turns into the buddy from hell. I agree and no one disputes this. Their conclusion was to ditch the buddy system. My counterclaim was you're not really ditching the buddy system when you solo dive; you're substituting another person with yourself in regards to those things that don't go away with the external buddy, like dive planning, execution, etc. Whether you carry on a conversation internally with yourself as I do or simply think these things through the outcome is the same -- a safer dive.

I'm happy to see you want to get solo qualified. For me it has opened up many dive opportunities that would not be available to me otherwise. The training and experience will make you a more confident diver and add another notch to becoming more self-sufficient.

 

[flots am]

Unless you have 2 independent brains connected to 2 independent cardio-vascular systems, and the ability to crawl out of your skin to free yourself from entanglement, the "real" buddy system provides strictly more redundancy than solo diving can ever provide. So, while I am a huge believer in the value of solo training, and I firmly intend to become solo-trained myself, I do not think your claim is valid.

It's not quite that simple. If you manage to run out of air, would you rather have an extra 30 under your arm that you know works and is full, or pop over to your buddy to share air, only to discover that he's only a few hundred PSI behind you?

Or you want to share air and your buddy hasn't done one in 20 years and swims away, pretending to not notice you? (it happens)

And an extra "brain" is only helpful if it's working better than yours.

A really good buddy is awesome. I dive with maybe 5 people like this. An average buddy is no better than carrying some extra gas, and a poor buddy actually makes the dive more dangerous and stressful.

flots