Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[drrich2]

Would you settle for snarky & on topic?

As a hypothetical case study on the topic, imagine that every diver who has posted on this thread independently gets on the same big charter boat one day for a 2-tank recreational trip, and the boat staff declare you have to buddy up. Let's say the group got split into 2 boats, and the people here who know & dive with each other are on separate boats before they find this out, and everybody gets a random insta-buddy. (Or we could even say you're buddied with whoever you argued with the most in this thread).

Now, with the, um, 'varied' views and personalities we have espoused and demonstrated in this thread, I wonder how well all the buddy pairings would go?

Wonder if it would move Captain Sinbad to get a pony bottle?

Richard.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Now, with the, um, 'varied' views and personalities we have espoused and demonstrated in this thread, I wonder how well all the buddy pairings would go?

Unless my "buddy" had a DPV with them, it'd go exactly as I'd like it to go. There's a significant amount of freedom created by the ability to measure your distance covered on any given single tank dive in miles.

 

[EFX]

Would you settle for snarky & on topic?

Sure. But only if it comes with nachoes and a manhattan.

As a hypothetical case study on the topic, imagine that every diver who has posted on this thread independently gets on the same big charter boat one day for a 2-tank recreational trip, and the boat staff declare you have to buddy up. Let's say the group got split into 2 boats, and the people here who know & dive with each other are on separate boats before they find this out, and everybody gets a random insta-buddy. (Or we could even say you're buddied with whoever you argued with the most in this thread).

Now, with the, um, 'varied' views and personalities we have espoused and demonstrated in this thread, I wonder how well all the buddy pairings would go? Richard.

I would have no trouble diving with anyone I've argued with. I think people, myself included, write things that wouldn't get said to someone's face. It's too easy to be misunderstood which can produce hard feelings and bruised egos. Also, it's kind of tough to argue underwater.

 

[DaleC]

Unless you have 2 independent brains connected to 2 independent cardio-vascular systems, and the ability to crawl out of your skin to free yourself from entanglement, the "real" buddy system provides strictly more redundancy than solo diving can ever provide. So, while I am a huge believer in the value of solo training, and I firmly intend to become solo-trained myself, I do not think your claim is valid.

This is an interesting question from a systems analysis POV.

On the one hand it would seem that two divers, sharing resources, would be better able to address issues.
On the other hand, that entire belief is based on both divers behaving in an appropriate manner.
My experience is that I cannot control the behavior of another person.
So my solution is to equip myself in a way that I can lend aid to myself (redundancy/self rescue planning).
Those who follow the buddy system often wave these ideas off as unnecessary.
This leads them to be less prepared when things go south, if their buddy system fails.

It really comes down to how many eggs one wants to put in the basket of relying on an uncontrollable resource (your buddy) and how much you want to make all your other systems dependent on them. Do they carry your bailout gas, do they carry your extra cutting tool, do they carry your smb, are they the one who knows the route, when to turn the dive, where to exit? It is surprising how many of these questions are yes for some.

As Bob said, I often plan more conservatively because I solo; but I also feel I understand and control of all my systems. I also understand/control my reaction as a buddy. So I can be a good one if I wish to be. I just can't go that one step further and imagine that I can control the reactions of others, especially someone I just met on a boat or in a parking lot.

I would dive with almost anyone.. once. I just wouldn't rely on them to carry all my self rescue resources.

 

[redacted]

Would you settle for snarky & on topic?

As a hypothetical case study on the topic, imagine that every diver who has posted on this thread independently gets on the same big charter boat one day for a 2-tank recreational trip, and the boat staff declare you have to buddy up. Let's say the group got split into 2 boats, and the people here who know & dive with each other are on separate boats before they find this out, and everybody gets a random insta-buddy. (Or we could even say you're buddied with whoever you argued with the most in this thread).

Now, with the, um, 'varied' views and personalities we have espoused and demonstrated in this thread, I wonder how well all the buddy pairings would go?

Wonder if it would move Captain Sinbad to get a pony bottle?

Richard.

I think I could buddy with just about anybody who wants a dive buddy. I even enjoy buddying up with photographers. But , if they swim off and are difficult to keep up with, I don't mind waving goodbye to them.

 

[billt4sf]

These threads make me so sad.

If you want to know how to have good dive buddies, look into GUE training. In our world, dive buddies are good buddies.

There is no need at all for people to be bad buddies. Dumpster Diver is right; situational awareness and team skills take work, and definitely get better with good training. But the primary requirement for a good buddy is that the person have the desire to BE a good buddy. Find people who WANT to be good buddies, and you can form functional teams.

I (we) want to get this training. I am having a H of a time finding one of the recommended instructors who seems to have enough time in their schedule. Maybe I need to look further afield.

- Bill

 

[Kharon]

... The fact is that while solo diving, you have one or two less human variables to worry about ...

Actually, I would argue you have many less than one or two. The way I was taught, a buddy is responsible for keeping up on all their buddies parameters as well as their own. All that increases the task load beyond what I find acceptable.

“The Magical Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two: Some Limits on Our Capacity for Processing Information" is one of the most highly cited papers in psychology. It was published in 1956 by the cognitive psychologist George A. Miller of Princeton University's Department of Psychology in Psychological Review. It is often interpreted to argue that the number of objects an average human can hold in working memory is 7 ± 2. This is frequently referred to as Miller's Law. Recent research suggests that the magic number is 5 not 7.

With a buddy you have all your own tasks plus your buddies: how much air, how much deco time left, etc. Double the task load - never a good thing - and actually more than double the task load. Add the complication of communication: all those signals, especially numeric air pressure – are down fingers 6 to 9? Does OK mean I’m OK or Are you OK? Or is he/she signalling zero? And on and on. (forget the "that should all be discussed in the dive plan" crap - you can't review the entire certification course before every dive). Plus the additional task of keeping track of where they are and staying close enough - one breath away. I'll carry my redundancy with me. It can't decide to swim away.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

With a buddy you have all your own tasks plus your buddies: how much air, how much deco time left, etc. Double the task load - never a good thing - and actually more than double the task load. Add the complication of communication: all those signals, especially numeric air pressure – are down fingers 6 to 9? Does OK mean I’m OK or Are you OK? Or is he/she signalling zero? And on and on. (forget the "that should all be discussed in the dive plan" crap - you can't review the entire certification course before every dive). Plus the additional task of keeping track of where they are and staying close enough - one breath away. I'll carry my redundancy with me. It can't decide to swim away.

Do you really do deco dives with someone who's so incompetent that they can't monitor their own air? Any diver I would do a deco dive with would have to be trusted to know what the turn/rock bottom pressure for the dive is and monitor their air supply without my assistance. I only need to be told if they reach it before I do ... whichever of us reaches it first signals the other and we head shallower. Communication isn't very complex ... we do it with each other every day, often without even conscious thought much less effort. Signals ... if you didn't review those prior to the dive, any confusion is due not to a buddy system, but your failure to follow rules you should have learned in OW class.

These types of arguments are specious ... and a significant reach in order to rationalize why someone chooses to dive a certain way. Perhaps they apply to you ... but they certainly don't do anything like justify why one diving choice is better than another.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kharon]

... without those redundant brains, an increased effort to maintain an awareness of what's going on around you, your surroundings (particularly in overheads and areas where entanglement is likely), and a tendency toward a more conservative dive profile seems prudent when solo diving. In other words, from a risk management perspective, two competent divers diving as a team can achieve more with less risk than one competent solo diver can achieve ...

That's assuming that the solo diver wants to achieve some more risky dive. Personally, for example, I see absolutely no point in wrecks - inside or out. Some do. I don't. Nor do I crave to dive among entanglements, in low visibility, in caves/tunnels/swim throughs, especially deep etc. etc. etc.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's assuming that the solo diver wants to achieve some more risky dive. Personally, for example, I see absolutely no point in wrecks - inside or out. Some do. I don't. Nor do I crave to dive among entanglements, in low visibility, in caves/tunnels/swim throughs, especially deep etc. etc. etc.

Agreed ... but once again you seem to be confusing personal choices with systemic limitations. They are not the same thing, nor should the former be used to rationalize why one way of diving is somehow better than the other.

Furthermore, the person the comment you quoted was in response to specifically used penetrating wrecks as one of his arguments for why he would want to solo dive.

Context matters ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)