Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[kr2y5]

There's another set of variables that bear on how people decide these things; their attitude toward having a buddy, and toward diving alone. For example, ask yourself what your attitude/taste/preference is toward:

1.) Diving with a buddy. Do you do this because you enjoy it, or because you need a risk mitigator and think this is the best form? People people who enjoy social actives aren't going to think quite like introverts. Some people would mostly buddy dive if there were no risk issue, just as some people seldom go to movie theaters alone, amusement parks alone, etc...

2.) What's your attitude toward diving alone (whether in recommended solo gear with independent gas source, etc...) or just regular gear either alone or your buddy swims off, but conditions are very good? Do you believe such diving is 'too dangerous' or a slippery slope you don't want to get on, or are you comfortable with it? Do you perhaps like it, preferring to dive by your own whim and preference and not bother monitoring a buddy?

Your views on the above are going to impact whether you think the hassles of finding and traveling with good buddies, or trying to get an insta-buddy up to snuff, are a worthwhile investment or 'too much of a PITA.'

Richard.

Absolutely, I just think this might be falling more in the realm of "I enjoy solo more than I enjoy buddy diving" (or the other way round), as opposed to "I dive solo because the buddy system is defective by design" (or "the buddy system is the only way to dive safely, and solo is defective by design"). I have experienced, on occasion, the thrill of being alone with the ocean, but I never felt that being alone made me safer at all. Rather, I am motivated to improve my skills to a point where I could do this more often with minimal risk. I also take extreme pleasure from diving as a buddy pair with my wife, I often feel more excited about her experiencing something new, than I feel about experiencing it myself. A different kind of pleasure. I never felt that diving as a buddy pair with her made me much safer, though (certainly not to the degree that it would affect the way I dive). Rather, I am keenly aware of the fact that she is dependent on me, far more than she should be. And, this is another reason to seek more training: both in solo diving (you can't help someone when you're dead or incapacitated), and in being a more attentive buddy.

 

[The Chairman]

Absolutely, I just think this might be falling more in the realm of "I enjoy solo more than I enjoy buddy diving" .

Denial: not just another river in Egypt.

There are all sorts of ways to justify your actions. Quite often, the only person you're fooling is yourself. kr2y5 brings up an interesting point.

Quite often, gear is thrown at a training issue. Most pony bottles fall in that category. Then you have the bad buddies proclaiming that the buddy system has failed, when they're the ones who have failed.

To have a good buddy, you first must :bee: one.​

 

[redacted]

While I use a pony for deeper solo diving, I also use a pony for some buddy diving. When dives are subject to be cut short by available gas supply, both my buddy and I will carry ponies so we do not have to reserve enough gas in our primary tanks for a two diver trip to the surface. It allows us to push our primary gas supply a bit, provides plenty of gas for a safe ascent, and provides a bailout if needed.

 

[shoredivr]

In the cold water of the Great Lakes a redundant gas supply (pony falls in that category) just makes sense because of the possibility of a free flow.
Of the seven divers on the recreational charter I was on today, all dived redundant tanks. Either slung 30, Backmounted to main tank 30, doubles or sidemount. All were recreational dives. Two of the divers had tech training, the others not.

The redundant tanks were in addition to the buddy system for those with buddies, and also used by solo divers.

This is an average charter in October in my experience.

 

[Pro Dive Davao]

There are many reasons for buddy diving but the one that helps the students focus is the out of air situation. Try this one. Ask the student to hold a full breath and walk around the pool at a slow walk. Ask them to stop when they need to breath. Many of them will get a fair distance before they stop.

Then ask them to repeat having breathed out before holding breath. The distance will half. Next ask them to do do 5 star jumps and then walk again while empty lungs.

The distance will half again.

Then say that the minimum safe distance from your buddy is half that distance to give your buddy time to react to you out if air situation. It's an exercise that help to emphasise how close to your buddy you need to be

 

[lidja]

I just wish there was a standard PRINTED "buddy checklist" that everyone would get in OW classes, just like dive tables and dive planner/log sheets. That alone would establish a standard expectation, and make it very simple to assess the efficacy of your buddy relationship *before* you both get in the water so there is time to personally adjust to the situation (mentally, physically, and added-equipmentally. Hehehe)

Would that be so hard?

I remember the relief I felt when my auto insurance company enclosed "cheat sheets" for when/if I ever got into an accident along with my policy papers. I would feel that same kind of relief, seeing an unfamiliar buddy pull out a buddy checklist I recognized from my own OW class.

Just a thought...

 

[Lorenzoid]

I just wish there was a standard PRINTED "buddy checklist" that everyone would get in OW classes, just like dive tables and dive planner/log sheets. That alone would establish a standard expectation, and make it very simple to assess the efficacy of your buddy relationship *before* you both get in the water so there is time to personally adjust to the situation (mentally, physically, and added-equipmentally. Hehehe)

Would that be so hard?

I remember the relief I felt when my auto insurance company enclosed "cheat sheets" for when/if I ever got into an accident along with my policy papers. I would feel that same kind of relief, seeing an unfamiliar buddy pull out a buddy checklist I recognized from my own OW class.

Just a thought...

As an extension of this, if it's standard in an OW class to teach some mnemonic device to help students remember a pre-dive checklist, like "BWRAF," why is it not standard to teach some mnemonic device to help students remember a "buddy checklist," as you refer to it? Printed checklists are fine, but if the agencies are already comfortable advocating a mnemonic for one checklist, then maybe they could see advocating a mnemonic for another checklist?

There are probably a number of reasonable answers to this question. One I can think of is that maybe the OW agencies are still living under the fantasy that most of us will be diving with familiar buddies. That may have been the case years ago, but in today's world it's more of the norm to dive with unfamiliar people than the exception.

By the way, maybe it was brought up earlier in this thread, but the "GUE-EDGE" mnemonic is in some ways relevant to buddy behavior, so it isn't as though NO agencies have thought of this.

 

[Bob DBF]

Quite often, gear is thrown at a training issue.

Over the years I have heard that or other similar disparaging comments about:

• J-valves
• horsecollars
• BCD's
• SPG's
• Safe seconds
• Computers
• and now Pony Bottles

Although some of these advances in gear make it unlikely that you are going to use some portions of the training, it is the instructor who decides what is covered in a class, and how it will be taught.

The modern BCD makes weighting properly optional.
The J-valve and SPG make avoiding OOA easy and OOA procedures are now secondary to "have fun diving".
The safe second used as buddy breathing reduces again the bond you make with your buddy sharing the only air available until you surface.
Computers are fine but give the new diver no concept of NDL/Deco, just follow the yellow brick road.
And now the Pony bottle.

So far in my limited experience, I have seen these advances used shorten classes and reduce the quality of the instruction. Don't get me wrong, it works because the gear now is very good and most OW graduates do not have the skills to plan their own dives and instead stick with the instructor for the next class. The real looser's are the ones that take the OW class as a joke and therefore figure all SCUBA training is a joke and go out on their own, Darrin Spivey and his ilk.

Then you have the bad buddies proclaiming that the buddy system has failed, when they're the ones who have failed.

To have a good buddy, you first must :bee: one.​

Agreed.

I am a Solo diver most of the time. I started diving solo because there were no divers around me when I started, and later I would dive solo because I enjoy the solitude as I do in other endeavors. I have no problem buddy diving, and over my years in diving have had four long term buddies. As a proficient diver you should be able to Buddy dive, solo or become a member of a team whenever the need arises.





Bob
---------------------------------------------------

That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

Lost in the din is the fact that newly trained divers are all too often scared as hell and primed for panic. That is the major reason for teaching and practicing “blow and go”. I have never had to do one for self-rescue, but knowing that I can eliminates any sense of equipment dependence. Highly criticized old-school training like harassment, blow and go, swimming tests without gear, and blunt language of consequences produce divers that far less likely to panic or embolize themselves.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

There are many reasons for buddy diving but the one that helps the students focus is the out of air situation. Try this one. Ask the student to hold a full breath and walk around the pool at a slow walk. Ask them to stop when they need to breath. Many of them will get a fair distance before they stop.

Then ask them to repeat having breathed out before holding breath. The distance will half. Next ask them to do do 5 star jumps and then walk again while empty lungs.

The distance will half again.

Then say that the minimum safe distance from your buddy is half that distance to give your buddy time to react to you out if air situation. It's an exercise that help to emphasise how close to your buddy you need to be

I think this is an extremely useful drill. I have read on this forum so many times, people making claims that they can swim up 50, 100 or more feet to reach the surface. We had one guy who said he could freedive, so he KNEW he could function with a complete loss of scuba gear for around 4 minutes if he just remained calm... TOTAL BS.

The pain and anxiety caused by a build up of CO2 in the empty lungs is incredibly intense and fast. I suggest that anyone who wants to find out for themselves, jog for a few minutes, exhale completely and then continue jogging after a full exhalation....see how far you get..

If people actually did this, I think redundant gas supplies would be more common (even when buddy diving). I mentioned this before, if you are diving in a current and your buddy (and back up air supply) is upcurrent,, how far and fast can you swim upcurrent with zero air in your lungs?

I used to practice ditch and don of the scuba unit in 60 feet, while solo.. Take the tank off, rest, take a few deep breaths and then gently swim up 60 feet. Simple, easy.. VERY easy. Rest on the surface for a few minutes, take a few breaths and then swim down 60 feet and grab the reg and put the tank on.. again easy.. However, this is NOTHING like making a free ascent with no gas while wearing scuba gear...

 

[The Chairman]

Bob,

I started out with a j-valve, no bc, no wet suit, no second, no spg and my depth gauge was a red ribbon. The gear was around, but I never thought to buy it. I wasn't opposed to them, but I was never taught their importance. I was also a terrible buddy. Thirty years later, I actually got certified and adopted all of those items. I was never taught by my OW instructor how to be a good buddy. That took ScubaBoard and a bunch of cyber mentoring. There's a concept we can borrow from the DIR crowd: Don't dive with strokes. While I rarely call anyone a stroke, I can avoid diving with people who appear to be dangerous or even just a bad buddy.

Most of the people I have seen who dive with a pony, are horrible buddies. They blame everyone but themselves. Rather than learn the skill, they hit the bottle instead. That's throwing gear at a training issue. Once they've mastered the skill of being a buddy, they might be ready to learn how to solo dive.

Moreover, I've been handed off many who were labeled as a poor buddy only to find them more than acceptable. Why is that?

To have a good buddy, you first must :bee: one!​