Continuing Education

[Brendon]

You have made it this far. Anyone planning on becoming a better and more knowledgeable diver this year? I see alot of questions on the board... What are you going to do this year to become a better diver?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As an instructor I have to say that I see no reason for people to enroll in a class every time they have a question or want answers. In fact part of the problem is that too many are taking classes before they are ready, taking classes that have little or no substance, and not just getting out and diving. And they would not have so many BASIC questions if those issues were addressed in the classes they have already taken.

There is no excuse for an OW diver to have to ask how to properly do a weight check. If they do then they need to go back to the instructor they had and demand to get the knowledge they paid for.

This forum is very valuable in that it points that out. Divers now know when they got shortchanged. Unfortunately it happens after the fact but without being able to ask questions here they would be like I was an go along believing the BS that I was being fed about training, courses, equipment, and what scuba was.

 

[Insta-Gator]

As an instructor I have to say that I see no reason for people to enroll in a class every time they have a question or want answers. In fact part of the problem is that too many are taking classes before they are ready, taking classes that have little or no substance, and not just getting out and diving. And they would not have so many BASIC questions if those issues were addressed in the classes they have already taken.

There is no excuse for an OW diver to have to ask how to properly do a weight check. If they do then they need to go back to the instructor they had and demand to get the knowledge they paid for.

This forum is very valuable in that it points that out. Divers now know when they got shortchanged. Unfortunately it happens after the fact but without being able to ask questions here they would be like I was an go along believing the BS that I was being fed about training, courses, equipment, and what scuba was.

Great points, Jim. I'm currently frustrated and disappointed with the AOW class I've taken. Not to turn this thread into a whine and cheese, but for any diver who has more than 50 dives and is very confident in their abilities, at this point I would recommend skipping the $1,000 (class and diving) AOW and just buy a nice computer and teach yourself how to use it.

OK, education is important, I'll agree. So if y'all want to line me up against the firing squad wall...have at it.

 

[Montana Diver]

+1 Jim
I enjoy a great relationship with my instructor who assists at our LDS. He is always willing to give out information and let me try anything in the shop...just wish he had long reg hoses. I also enjoy going on the OW cert dives with his classes. I get to schlep weights and be a gopher, but I get the opportunity to go diving more frequently. During my training with him, I have been able to learn more about tank VIP procedures and replacing wrist seals. During my rescue class, I was able to attend confined and OW dives and observe the class and discuss the strengths of each each new diver. I also get a refresher on proper procedure for all skills I learned during my OW classes. I am certain that I could air-share without creating an accident, a component that I did not MASTER during OW certification.

Do I intend to take more classes...probably a nitrox class. I will probably have completed most of the course prior to actually taking the class.

I enjoy this forum since I sometmes have questions that when provided the answer, I have a Homer Simpson moment. Without this board I would have missed all the really cool information on rock bottom gas management, thanks NWgrateful Diver, and why it is important to become a better diver. This board provides me the ability to ask the proper questions so I can get past the "don't know what I don't know" status.

We are never sitting still, we are either progressing or regressing. Information is the key to progress.

 

[Brendon]

As an instructor I have to say that I see no reason for people to enroll in a class every time they have a question or want answers.(I didnt say everytime, I said for those who have alot of questions...) In fact part of the problem is that too many are taking classes before they are ready, taking classes that have little or no substance(Im not advocating a class with no substance), and not just getting out and diving (Most classes would include diving) . And they would not have so many BASIC (Im not talking about basic questions...) questions if those issues were addressed in the classes they have already taken. (A weighting question, as I have answered a few... Tend to be asked in such a way that a basic response does not apply... Some are looking for mass/volume/density formulas, they just dont know it. Infamous fresh water to salt water question....)

There is no excuse for an OW diver to have to ask how to properly do a weight check.Agreed If they do then they need to go back to the instructor they had and demand to get the knowledge they paid for.

This forum is very valuable in that it points that out. Divers now know when they got shortchanged. Unfortunately it happens after the fact but without being able to ask questions here they would be like I was an go along believing the BS that I was being fed about training, courses, equipment, and what scuba was.

Well, im sorry for whatever bad experiance you've had, or those you know.. But conitinuing education in some form or another is key to diver safety. Please correct me if im wrong but it seems you dont agree with that, It seems you think that they should be taught everything in their first open water class... Im probably not getting your context right..

 

[Montana Diver]

I skipped the AOW course and went to Rescue, which was an inexpensive class for all the time and knowledge I received. The classroom portion was short, however the practical was drawn out over four months and ten confined dives and 4 OW dives plus the dives necessary to demonstrate skills. I had a blast and learned some new skills...but I really enjoy my instructor.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Well, im sorry for whatever bad experiance you've had, or those you know.. But conitinuing education in some form or another is key to diver safety. Please correct me if im wrong but it seems you dont agree with that, It seems you think that they should be taught everything in their first open water class... Im probably not getting your context right..

I do believe in continuing education. IMO Scubaboard, The Deco Stop, The Cyber Diver, and all the other on line forums are a form of continuing education. They do not require a checkbook or Visa card. The key to diver safety is a solid understanding of the basics - including rescue skills - that used to be part of every OW program.

Along with getting in the water on a regular basis. I train my students to come back for continuing education only because they want to. Never because they have to. It is not necessary to take class after class to stay safe. OW and Rescue are the two classes I feel every diver should have if they have not received rescue skills in their OW training. A safe diver can continue to learn by diving with more experienced divers. They do not have to be DM's or Instructors. Fact is that some divers are safer staying away from some DM's and Instructors.

And your last statement has a great deal of truth to it. The OW class is supposed to provide everything a diver needs to safely plan, execute, and return from a dive in conditions equal to or better than that in which they were trained. With a buddy of equal skill and training. To me that says that nothing else should be required unless the diver wants more.

I believe then that if this is the goal then yes they should get rescue skills, emergency deco procedures, good instruction in buoyancy and trim, and the admonishment that if they wish to expand their limits they do so gradually with careful thought and preparation. That preparation can be coming to an on line forum, dive club, or instructor and getting information they can use to do just that.

My OW students are technically certed to 100ft. They have the basic knowledge and skills to do that. It is strongly recommended however that if they choose to do that they build up gradually to that depth. Using a recommended maximum of 60 until they gain experience and take time to read and expand their knowledge base.

If they want to get there quicker then I have the classes that will allow them to accelerate their pace.

 

[Brendon]

Great points, Jim. I'm currently frustrated and disappointed with the AOW class I've taken. Not to turn this thread into a whine and cheese, but for any diver who has more than 50 dives and is very confident in their abilities, at this point I would recommend skipping the $1,000 (class and diving) AOW and just buy a nice computer and teach yourself how to use it.

OK, education is important, I'll agree. So if y'all want to line me up against the firing squad wall...have at it.

Everyone is intitled to their own opinion, thats what this forum is for... Question for you. What do you think is better for everyone in the diving community, another 500-1000.00 diving computer or another rescue diver out on the boats.

My answer is another rescue diver.

1) a more confident diver

2) another person with the ability to help another in need in ow (trained)

3) another class for our instructors to teach

4) equal to the cost of most decent computers.. More valuble to the diving community.

I do agree though that PDC's are important.

 

[Brendon]

I do believe in continuing education. IMO Scubaboard, The Deco Stop, The Cyber Diver, and all the other on line forums are a form of continuing education. They do not require a checkbook or Visa card. The key to diver safety is a solid understanding of the basics - including rescue skills - that used to be part of every OW program.

Well im sorry you feel that way. No amount of study of i.e Scubaboard, The Deco Stop, The Cyber Diver or any other online forum can substitute for actual guided practice for scuba diving. And yes that does cost money in most cases... If anyone doesnt like that they should have thought about it or been made aware of it by someone before they joined the 3rd most expensive sport...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

And you completely ignored the rest of my comment and chose to quote only that which did not agree with your stance. It does not have to be an expensive sport. Divers choose to make it as expensive as they want.

I chose to invest 10's of thousands in gear, training, classes, etc. I dive with a buddy who is a very good diver who got into it for an OW class, AOW class, a 7mil suit, reg, BC, personal gear, and a couple tanks. He is every bit as good a diver as any I've dived with. He does lack experience in some areas but for him what he has in the way of formal training is enough except for a formal rescue class that we will remedy this summer.

If he never takes another class he is still one of the safest divers I know and I would trust him with my life at any time. He learns by diving, reading, and studying. You've been here a couple weeks. I don't think you've even scratched the surface when it comes to the amount of knowledge, experience, skill, and most of all caring that this site contains. An OW diver who goes out and dives could come here and get a better education on dive theory, safety, planning, and procedures than they could in many formal classes.

And again, it would not cost them an arm and a leg.

And a by the way - The reason I wrote my book was because of the amount of education that divers are not getting. So I do believe very strongly in con-ed. I just want to help divers get the right kind and the best value for their money.