Continuing Education

[Insta-Gator]

I do believe in continuing education. IMO Scubaboard, The Deco Stop, The Cyber Diver, and all the other on line forums are a form of continuing education. They do not require a checkbook or Visa card. The key to diver safety is a solid understanding of the basics - including rescue skills - that used to be part of every OW program.

+1 Jim. Back in 1989 when I passed OW, rescue (ascent & surface swim) was part of the course. It didn't make you red cross certified, but it taught you the basics, and there was no O2 bottle or defib device to learn. Speaking of which, when was the last time you saw either one of these? I suppose some modern boats have them, but we shore divers certainly don't carry one.

I guess I'm a sour on some of the continuing education topic because of all the parsed nonsense between Adventure Diver vs Advance Open Water diver, etc. I know, for the sake of keeping qualified instructors in the industry, they need to have something to teach or their income opportunity dies after OW for the most part.

In a nut shell, my thoughts are similar to Jim's...teach the complete course thoroughly in OW to graduate skilled, confident divers. If it means more Dive Cons helping on more dives, then so be it. There is nothing like first hand practical experience to build competence. Not sitting in a classroom where the instructor asks, "Did you read the book?", "Do you have any questions?", "Please turn in your worksheets from the back of the book." Uhhhhh! I'll take an old-style OW diver as a buddy any time.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

No AED but I always have O2 on hand for shore dives. And a first aid kit on steroids! I've even got suture kits in mine!

 

[Brendon]

And you completely ignored the rest of my comment and chose to quote only that which did not agree with your stance. It does not have to be an expensive sport. Divers choose to make it as expensive as they want.

Sorry, that was the part I disliked most...

I chose to invest 10's of thousands in gear, training, classes, etc. I dive with a buddy who is a very good diver who got into it for an OW class, AOW class, a 7mil suit, reg, BC, personal gear, and a couple tanks. He is every bit as good a diver as any I've dived with. He does lack experience in some areas but for him what he has in the way of formal training is enough except for a formal rescue class that we will remedy this summer.

Im not surprised he is a good diver, you said he was your dive buddy, you already mentioned you are a instructor. A+B=C... So are you going to be everyones dive buddy so they can be as good as your friend?

If he never takes another class he is still one of the safest divers I know and I would trust him with my life at any time. He learns by diving, reading, and studying. You've been here a couple weeks.As I have stated before in other posts, not that you would know but... I have been a member since 2005, I am locked out of my other account deepseaconvict for sometime now forgot password and dont use my old email address anymore... So yes I am more aware then you would give credit. I don't think you've even scratched the surface when it comes to the amount of knowledge, experience, skill, and most of all caring that this site contains. An OW diver who goes out and dives could come here and get a better education on dive theory, safety, planning, and procedures than they could in many formal classes.
What? Thats what your advocating? If you were a instructor in my organization I would seek to have you removed based on that comment alone, im glad your not and this will be the last I exchange comments with you. I would only hope that a moderator will see your comment and remove as to not influence any divers in that manner

And again, it would not cost them an arm and a leg.

And a by the way - The reason I wrote my book was because of the amount of education that divers are not getting. So I do believe very strongly in con-ed. I just want to help divers get the right kind and the best value for their money.

Your book... I get it now, give you the money for your book not other instructors. Better to buy your book then the long standing tradition of formal training and continuing education.

 

[falcon125]

If it were'nt for all the people who ask questions and the knowledgeable folks around here who answer them, I would have very little use for this forum. Thank all of you that participate in this process.

I dont see OW as a class that teaches you how to be a proficient diver. It just gives you the basics. The rest is up to you. Everybody needs to start somewhere.

I find it funny that I needed OW to go to Cozumel and dive with divemaster/baby sitters, but I can go dive my prarrie pond on my own with nothing more than a friend to rent tanks for me.

Maybe there should be more ratings that mean something. maybe there should be more emphasis on # of dives where skills were worked on either with or with out an instructor. But with all the competion for students between PADI, NAUI, GUE and all the other certifying agency's its always gonna be a system of take their money and give em their card.
There really needs to be ONE standard set of requirements and ONE standard set of ratings.

Cant wait to get back in the water and have more rookie questions for all ya'll.

 

[TSandM]

I think there is sometimes a lot of value in asking a question and getting it answered when the iron is hot, so to speak. People who come here to ask questions do so because the answer MATTERS to them -- and we remember much better things that have context and are relevant, than we do things which are presented on a random platter.

In addition, the "brain trust" represented by the many members of this board can have a lot of value, too. If I can't express an answer in a way that is clear to the inquirer, someone else probably can (of course, one does have to exercise a bit of discrimination in deciding which answers are good and which are off base). And where there are different opinions on a topic, here you may hear all of them, whereas with an instructor, you may only hear HIS.

But as already observed, there is simply no substitute for time in the water, and nothing on line can offer what the feedback and advice of someone in the water WITH you can do.

The quality of continuing diving education is unfortunately spotty, but there ARE good classes out there, within the traditional agencies and elsewhere, that will help people develop as divers. But ScubaBoard helps, too, I think . . .

 

[Brendon]

Falcon

True, proficiency comes with time, continued training and practice. OW class should be a great start, however they are not all the same and for the most part the level of proficiency in new students is determined by the dedication of the instructor...

Yes u could dive in your pond... How much fun would that be?


1) Nitrox course

2) Rescue Diver

3) Master Diver

4) Instructor

All of these courses have meaning, If you are not satisfied with the level of training these days, do something about. Become an instructor. Be better then your instructor, thats the only way change will be made.

 

[DaleC]

People should dive until they hit a wall that can not be overcome without further formal education. Then they should take the next appropriate course. If they are intelligent and only recreational diving (and have been instructed properly in the first place) OW may be the only course they ever need to take.

It's not a contest.

 

[TSandM]

One of the best diving teachers I have had the good fortune to encounter was Joe Talavera, and Joe's edict was, "Do all the diving you can do with the certification you have, and when you are bored, go get more training." There is a lot of truth to that, once you reach a certain point -- but unfortunately, it may not be valid at the very beginning, simply because some students come out of OW without the skills to do ANY independent diving to speak of. Such folks (and I was one) are better served by continuing education right away, not to increase the scope of what they are certified to do, but simply to keep trying to achieve competence in basic diving.

EVERYTHING in diving can be learned by mentorship and experience, if you are willing to take enough time and take the risks involved in making mistakes. But the educational process can be shortened, made more efficient and less dangerous by seeking formal instruction.

 

[rjack321]

1) Nitrox course

2) Rescue Diver

3) Master Diver

4) Instructor

All of these courses have meaning, If you are not satisfied with the level of training these days, do something about. Become an instructor. Be better then your instructor, thats the only way change will be made.

No they often don't have any meaning. Many of these courses, as taught, are garbage. Worst part is the number of lousy instructors who perpetuate lousy students.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Your book... I get it now, give you the money for your book not other instructors. Better to buy your book then the long standing tradition of formal training and continuing education.

Never said that either. Once again you read things into statements that are not there. But if you want to say that - thanks! All I was saying is that the lack of information passed on to OW divers is one of the reasons I wrote it. Never said it could replace formal training.


And just what justification would you use to have me removed as an instructor from your agency? I see no requirement in the NAUI standards I have that an instructor not tell people they don't need to keep taking classes to be safe. One should recommend con ed but not use a lie to get them to take it. Telling people they need to keep taking classes and paying an instructor or they won't be safe divers is a lie. Divers should keep learning yes but they don't need to pay to do that. And they don't need to do that to stay safe. THere are likely thousands of divers who stay safe and never take another class. They don't read, they don't go on line. They just dive and use good basic safe diving practices. They learn by experience.

If one makes blanket statements along the lines of if you don't train you may not be a safe diver expect to get some feedback.

And I have to ask, why is this in the advanced forum? This is a basic scuba topic.