Could/should I do rescue?

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KatieMac

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Messages
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Location
Small town Ontario, Canada
# of dives
100 - 199
New diver - 37 dives over 3 trips to the Caribbean and finished AOW on most recent trip.

So what's next?
- I'm really good on air - usually using about 1600 pounds on a 60 min dive.
- I'm (reasonably) good on buoyancy although I know there is room for improvement.
- I need work on finning techniques - especially backwards.

I'm reasonably fit but not athletic, not a strong swimmer and I'm pretty small.

Worried that the requirements for rescue might be too physically difficult for me. So where do I go from here?
 
most rescue courses are a joke and if you are certified in first aid/CPR there really isn't anything IMO that is worth taking that course from most instructors. There are exceptions, but they are very rare. Your physical concerns are not an issue in most classes, though you would struggle with the 1/2 mile rescue tow while giving rescue breaths that is required from the program that I work with. That is not something that is required anywhere else that I am aware of.

If you are looking for "what's next" I think you should look at an intro to tech/fundamentals type course where you will learn a lot more about how to become a more self-sufficient and generally "better" diver. At that point, I would really only recommend rescue if it becomes a requirement to progress into whatever next course you decide you want to move to
 
I would advise Rescue. Don't worry about your size. They're not going to ask you to do something ridiculously hard. Most people find Rescue one of the more valuable courses and it rounds out the skill set you need as an active diver, imo.

That said, I took rescue twice. Once in 1985 and again in about 2000 when I was preparing to become a divemaster and needed a refresher. During the course in 2000 I was paired up with a buddy who weighed about 120kg (I weighed 80) and had to fireman lift and carry him out of water up to my hips.

This, of course, was just the instructor letting me smell one because I had already been diving at that point for longer than he had been certified. I found 120kg a little on the heavy side to carry and fell over while I was still in knee deep water. He was laying on top of me and I was pinned to the ground..... we all found it highly amusing.

.... and that's the point here. The course is made to challenge you. Your challenge will be different than mine but at some point the most valuable training is the training that makes you more familiar with your boundaries. Most people come away from that experience feeling much more confident than they did coming in.

R..
 
I would set a goal of doing more dives to get your count to 50. In these dives I would practice the skills you feel you could improve. Think how far you have come in 37 dives, imagine another 37. There is always room for improvement. I would also practice the swim test. Once comfortable with the requirements sign up for the course. It is one of the best courses offered. It will teach you to be self reliant as well as give you the skills necessary should something happen while you are diving. It is well worth the time and effort to train for it.

I look at it this way, you didn't just get a driver's license, you trained before you took the test. Apply the same principles to diving. Even if the requirements come natural to you there is always room for improvement. From rescue you could go a multitude of ways with your diving career. But, rescue is really the foundation of it all. Whether professional, technical, or recreational it will give you the skill set and knowledge to be a better diver and a better dive partner.

Good luck in your decision either way. And safe diving.

Edit: spellchecker did not work
 
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most rescue courses are a joke

Really......

I'm starting to find it a bit of a full time job getting you to dial down the arrogance.

Have you ever been involved in a full-scale emergency/rescue? I have. I can tell you right now that when the **** was hitting the fan that -- without going into detail -- training that I thought I would never need saved someones life that day.

Is that a joke?

R..
 
Ha ha ha :) i guess it is not easy to lift 120 kg man. I am going to to Rescue diver course this year (together with my wife). I am not worried about myself but about her if she needs to rescue me. 115 kg vs 65 kg.....
 
I would set a goal of doing more dives to get your count to 50.

50 is an interesting number because it's also the number I believe is around the middle of the "normal curve" for when people really have their basic skilled mastered. I think this is what you're suggesting and I agree that 50 is a nice round comfortable average to work from as a starting point.

That said, a number is just a number. Someone who has received good initial training and/or has talent could be ready for rescue *much* earlier. I've also (literally!) seen divers with 100's of dives who my daughter, on her 10th post certification dive, thought were having an accident before she realized that this is just the way they dive.....

50 is a nice number and I like that number too but it's not a black and white thing. Part of me would like to see students do rescue a little earlier because I think there are some skills in that course that ACTUALLY should be in the OW course, as they are in other agencies, like CMAS. Delaying too long is a mistake, if you ask me, so I would err to advising it earlier rather than later.

R..
 
Ha ha ha :) i guess it is not easy to lift 120 kg man. I am going to to Rescue diver course this year (together with my wife). I am not worried about myself but about her if she needs to rescue me. 115 kg vs 65 kg.....

Let's hope you need to lift her and not the other way around :)

Actually, all kidding aside, I found that to be a learning moment. When I was face down and pinned on the bottom by a 120kg mountain of flesh it occurred to me that if this had been a REAL rescue that I could have died trying to carry him out of the water.

One of the lessons in the Rescue course is to not make 2 victims where one was already bad enough..... this exercise, while the instructor intended it as a bit of a tongue-in-cheek thing actually made me aware of a certain risk during a rescue and drove this point home to me.

R..
 
@Diver0001 I have been involved in several very real emergency scenarios.

come audit a rescue course in the US if you think it's arrogance. The course has been so watered down it's ridiculous. I'm not saying "mine is better and you should take mine". When you have a full semester to teach AOW/Rescue, you can do a lot more. The problem is that what is taught in the course really isn't that useful for "most" divers because they don't have the equipment, or are diving in scenarios where the people that have the equipment are dealing with the problem. You're a dive professional, I assume you have the stuff, I am a dive professional, I do have the stuff. I'll get to the exceptions at the bottom.

There are three points of the rescue diver course.
Preventing an accident from occurring-most rescue courses will emphasize on this from what I've seen, but that should all be covered in any fundamentals type course
Getting a diver to shore-finding one, bringing him to the surface, then bringing to shore
Dealing with him once at the shore

Now, I don't have any PADI standards newer than 2002, so we'll look at IANTD and NAUI.

Diving First Aid, CPR, O2 admin is done concurrently or before the course-this takes care of the third one and is the one that I said you should take.


Now, let's address the middle bit for getting a diver to shore.
Missing diver-search patterns, etc. we do a lot of work with this, but the real world benefit is limited, again see exceptions at the bottom. We also emphasize that once you have to start this, especially from the surface, it's going to be a recovery not a rescue. There are exceptions, but highly unlikely.

Surface tows and recovery from depth-should be covered in OW *my opinion and NAUI agrees*, and certainly in AOW because that can happen to anyone *tired/cramps, etc*. You add rescue breaths, but most instructors don't actually know how to give efficient rescue breaths, and if you are boat diving you are likely going to actually slow the process of getting the diver to an AED/O2/CPR which makes the situation worse. I practice frequently enough to demonstrate at a high level, but if there is any risk that the breaths would slow me down in the water, I would kick like hell to the shore and get him on an MTV-100 or BVM with O2. We can't get college students with 3 MONTHS of practice, 2 sessions per week that are 2 hours long to efficiently tow while giving rescue breaths. Granted, only about 2 of those sessions are dedicated to towing, but it's still 4 hours of it with expected time for them to practice. How can anyone be so delusional to think that you can teach it in the days that most rescue courses give? More importantly, if you have to kick any distance, how many people are actually in good enough shape to do it? That's why we make them do it for half a mile to mimic swimming across a lake or coming up from the wrong side of a wreck or reef.

Panicked diver at surface etc. usually not actually covered in most courses because the instructors don't let any victims be truly active or they don't know how to be active so it's pretty much a waste of time. Hell most lifeguard courses don't actually teach with proper active victims.

IANTD covers a bunch of interesting skills for self-rescue that are useful that we also teach *DSO and Mount have been friends since the military, so shock of all shocks there*. Falling into water while fully clothed, drown proofing, breathing with a removed diaphragm to simulate a flooding reg *PADI would have a cow if you made a student do that*, 2 minute full freeflow breathing, 2 minute valve feathering.

Now, with most divers not diving in cold dark lakes and what not, and with most divers diving around with dive masters. The rescue course doesn't really bring a whole lot to the table that's truly "useful" to make you a better diver. If you regularly dive with instabuddies, especially in cold dark lakes/quarries etc. and don't dive with dive masters, then yeah, take rescue. If you are a warm water diver off of boats? You really aren't going to get a whole lot out of it. In a real world scenario the boat crew is going to take over anyway.

You may not like that answer, but it is what it is. It is not a course I teach if I can help it. If you have any desire to do any sort of leadership, you obviously need to take it. If you do any sort of diving without any sort of leadership or in remote areas, not only do you need to take it, but you HAVE to have all of the equipment. I.e. there is 0 point in taking O2 admin if you don't keep O2 kits with you. The diver is going to die if you take a diver up to the surface who doesn't have a pulse if you don't have an AED, end of discussion. The diver is probably going to die if you don't have O2 and they weren't breathing for any length of time. If you are going to take the course, and want an actual chance at saving someone, you need the stuff, and that is a fully stocked first aid kit, an AED, and a full O2 kit with BVM *and KNOW how to use it individually* or preferably an MTV-100.
If you are diving with an operation that has that stuff, they will be dealing with the surface portion anyway, so as long as you can get him to the surface and preferably to the boat/shore, that's all you're going to do anyway.


So I'll ask genuinely. Why do you think all divers should take it unless they fall into the future leadership category, or are willing to invest in the stuff to actually give someone a shot at making it out and are regularly diving away from any sort of operators?
Why should the OP take the course? If her dives are in the caribbean, it's all with dive ops meaning someone in the water, and qualified people on the surface. What benefit is there?
 
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Worried that the requirements for rescue might be too physically difficult for me. So where do I go from here?

Do it

If nothing else you'll learn your limitations and know what to do and not what to do, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Some instructors are better than others and put an extra effort into the course and don't just do the bare minimum standards for the agency.

When I did my Rescue course I was 60Kg / 1.7m and had to deal with a 2m tall DM as the victim and I don't know what weight he was. My Instructor said you can't choose your victim, and you learn how to react and use whatever available resources around you like other divers and perhaps some Turkish beach goers that don't speak English.

Great course.

My IANTD tech training has included additional stuff for self rescue, it never stops.
 
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