Couple detained in Cozumel until chamber bill paid

[Dogbowl]

I copied my info from page 6 here: https://www.diveassure.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/DiveSafe-DOC-English.pdf


I don't think so, but those terms are common on many sites. Put the first sentence inside quotation marks on google search and see.

You do need to read your policy. Contact the company to get a copy.

I asked for a policy document, but was provided a Description of Coverage, which is what your link looks like as well. I have already requested the policy document again. I’ll see what they provide me this time.

 

[Efka76]

Honestly I was not even a diver that I got (fast) reply from DAN support by email.
And this is the first sign if a company is reliable or not. How fast and How serious they reply to you ?

Now I don't get what is a Primary insurance exactly- is it the Universal Health Care System ?

Primary insurance means that if something happens they will be covering costs. Secondary insurance means that it covers remaining costs which are left from prinary insurance. E.g. in case medical tratment expenses are USD 30,000 and primary insurance covers only 20,000, the remaining amount will be covered by secondary insurance.

I assume that in case you do not have Primary insurance but DAN insurance only then DAN becames you primary insurer. I did not choose DAN and choose DiveAssure as i read various stories that according to DAN policies might be cases that you need to pay first from your own pocket and then claim amounts fron DAN insurance. DiveAssure advertise thenselves as Primary insurance company where they pay to hospitals directky and you do not need to pay anything from your own pocket.

 

[DandyDon]

in case medical tratment expenses are USD 30,000 and primary insurance covers only 20,000, the remaining amount will be covered by secondary insurance.

If 100% if paid for you, do you care which paid the most?

I did not choose DAN and choose DiveAssure as i read various stories that according to DAN policies might be cases that you need to pay first from your own pocket and then claim amounts fron DAN insurance. DiveAssure advertise thenselves as Primary insurance company where they pay to hospitals directky and you do not need to pay anything from your own pocket.

That would probably vary with locations and providers. Some are happy to simply bill DAN, some not, but for those in the not category - what makes you think they'll just bill Dive Assure?

 

[Olariuas]

I assume that in case you do not have Primary insurance but DAN insurance only then DAN becames you primary insurer. I did not choose DAN and choose DiveAssure as i read various stories that according to DAN policies might be cases that you need to pay first from your own pocket and then claim amounts fron DAN insurance. DiveAssure advertise thenselves as Primary insurance company where they pay to hospitals directky and you do not need to pay anything from your own pocket.

This is what I asked for in #41
Couple detained in Cozumel until chamber bill paid

I do plan a trip in Cebu (then Coron>Subic Bay) next February and I already contacted at least one Cebu' local dive shop owner who tell me they have an hyperbaric chamber in Cebu City (they do recognize DAN nothing had to be paid = best scenario!) - But in case the hospital do not recognize DAN - you have to pay first and then DAN make a refund.

The advice / or protocol is to call DAN first who will redirect you to the 'affiliated' hospital. (when you have several options)
Or Call DAN first to make sure and know which hospital / hyperbaric chamber will recognize DAN without divers to pay first.

And I have also read the same story of people who do have to pay the bill first.
Each country are different- even if I have DAN honestly I have no idea- today if I might be covered for scuba diving accidents cause there are always tiny little text in 'general exclusions' saying NOT ITS NOT ... It's considered as extrem sport and you need specific specialized insurance (sport or diving insurance directly).

But I have primary insurance (as I recall I had a broken arm and I paid nothing) that I pay direct from my salary...
Now for secondary insurance I have a cheap / not interesting cover plan from my work -ultra minimum- if I have serious accidents I always get 100% cover just because it enters as "work-related accidents and diseases" and here too- work might scam you if you are not carefull to make sure the EMS transportation take you direct inside your work building... crazy I was already cheated like this one time not another time...

And a 'good' secondary insurance start from 40$ to over 100$ monthly but it look like I still have to request more infos if they cover outside my home country and which country exactly...

But as I said I do not mind paying health insurance - scuba diving & gear are expensive let's not lie ourself - if I can afford 2 Shearwater computers I can afford a small 400 $ yearly from DAN Sport Gold + DiveAssure Dive & Travel.

Now alright DiveAssure advertise themselves [...] but do they really do when the situation appear ? I can't trust a insurance when they will always try to found a way to not pay at all or share the cost with another one.

 

[Lorenzoid]

From Dive Assure's terms...
3. You hereby agree to provide details of any known coverage in effect at the time of loss and that GBG has the right to review and potentially subrogate with any undeclared coverage whether known or unknown to You.
5. The Insurer may at their own expense take proceedings in the name of You to recover compensation or secure an indemnity from any third party in respect of any loss, damage or expense covered by this Insurance and any amounts recovered or secured shall belong to the Insurer.

I trust that Dive Assure offers good coverage, but claiming Primary is a gimmick.

DAN also subrogates with other coverage.

I see. DiveAssure's site has a checkbox in their automated quote generator for indicating to them that you're seeking secondary, not primary, coverage. Primary is the default if you leave the box unchecked. So according to what you quoted, regardless of whether you check the box, if you file a claim DiveAssure is likely going to ask you if you have other insurance, and if so, they will likely try to subrogate, just like DAN.

Also, I wonder what effect, if any, checking the box for "Secondary" has on the premium? I haven't experimented with getting a quote with the box checked and again with it unchecked. When I looked into DiveAssure last year, I just checked the box without thinking much about it, since I have regular healthcare insurance, and I figured that if it had any effect on the premium it would be to lower it.

 

[ggunn]

I trust that Dive Assure offers good coverage, but claiming Primary is a gimmick.

In my experience in dealing with multiple insurers, it's not up to them (or me, either, for that matter) which is primary and which is secondary.

 

[Olariuas]

OK i'm back home and called my work-insurance and 3 other major insurance / will directly meet my primary insurance to ask the question.

In any case none of them do cover scuba diving with tanks and not even snorkeling
- all of them tried to sell me another insurance not related to what I asked for. but paying at least 20% left if the primary insurance cover it.

currently my insurance related to scuba diving...
primary: still unknown
secondary: nothing / DAN


Sadly- I have no idea how many serious (or not) DCI are treated each year- but I was thinking that at least ALL hyperbaric chamber would be DAN affiliated and deal better about depenses and claim for refund without to request the injured diver to pay first. As soon as you are covered or overcovered by multiple insurance you should not have to pay before insurance. Dunno.

 

[Skittl1321]

Sadly- I have no idea how many serious (or not) DCI are treated each year- but I was thinking that at least ALL hyperbaric chamber would be DAN affiliated and deal better about depenses and claim for refund without to request the injured diver to pay first. As soon as you are covered or overcovered by multiple insurance you should not have to pay before insurance. Dunno.

Keep in mind, outside of major dive destinations, treating DCI is probably only a very small part of what a hyperbaric chamber does. So depending on where you are, while the chamber might work with DAN- you might be the first person in there to have ever used their insurance; the bulk of their clients might be for wound care.

I also find who is asked to pay before insurance often is a function of how likely they think you will pay. Every medical provider I go to has signs up that says "treatment must be paid for at the time it is received", and yet ALL of them send me a bill after my insurance pays.

A chamber in Mexico might want me to pay before leaving, since I'm heading to another country- collecting on the debt might be hard. The one affiliated with my hospital where I receive my primary care is probably going to bill me later.

 

[Olariuas]

A chamber in Mexico might want me to pay before leaving, since I'm heading to another country- collecting on the debt might be hard. The one affiliated with my hospital where I receive my primary care is probably going to bill me later.

Sure I think I do understand-

When you are saying "A chamber in Mexico might want me to pay before leaving" is it from my own money or from insurance money who will pay them -- and might take 2 or 3 days to get into hospital bank account. Means that I still don't pay anything. In 5y thanks I have not need to use DAN so I have no idea how this might clearly work. I do recall when I broke my arm I had nothing to pay at all- I had my green Carte Vitale / Secondary insurance card / well all papers that is supposed to follow me everywhere-time.

There are several reviews of users who clearly say that they had to pay nothing at all- but it might be related to where you are.

I am still happy that my instructor suggested me to save money as an emergency backup only for scuba diving stuff.
My 3 other close friends and buddies do not even think to have an emergency backup- they just have the primary / the secondary and DAN.
Nothing more Nothing less.


edit:
Inside Europe: Free 365 days specific card - I do not pay anything look to be even better than the National card... let me check more there...
Outside Europe: National Health care might not work - I do have to pay first and eventually request a refund (80% part) but only for emergency care.

Need yearly or short time insurance
- CreditCard Mastercard Gold or higher (yearly) : need to pay everything with it
- Travel insurance (short time)
- Dive insurance (yearly)

 

[Skittl1321]

Sure I think I do understand-

When you are saying "A chamber in Mexico might want me to pay before leaving" is it from my own money or from insurance money who will pay them -- and might take 2 or 3 days to get into hospital bank account. Means that I still don't pay anything. In 5y thanks I have not need to use DAN so I have no idea how this might clearly work. I do recall when I broke my arm I had nothing to pay at all- I had my green Carte Vitale / Secondary insurance card / well all papers that is supposed to follow me everywhere-time.

There are several reviews of users who clearly say that they had to pay nothing at all- but it might be related to where you are.

I am still happy that my instructor suggested me to save money as an emergency backup only for scuba diving stuff.
My 3 other close friends and buddies do not even think to have an emergency backup- they just have the primary / the secondary and DAN.
Nothing more Nothing less.

edit:
Inside Europe: Free 365 days specific card - I do not pay anything look to be even better than the National card... let me check more there...
Outside Europe: National Health care might not work - I do have to pay first and eventually request a refund (80% part) but only for emergency care.

Need yearly or short time insurance
- CreditCard Mastercard Gold or higher (yearly) : need to pay everything with it
- Travel insurance (short time)
- Dive insurance (yearly)

Since the chamber in Cozumel has a good relationship with DAN, I'd assume once the insurance is presented, and they know they are getting paid, they are good and won't ask anything out of pocket.
But if I just presented them with my Blue Cross insurance, they would probably want payment upfront, and let me deal with Blue Cross reimbursing me. Because how much they pay various providers is a giant mess of negotiated rates, and out of network it is quite low, so the provider has to balance bill for what remains.


We do get DAN when we dive. And travel insurance depending on the conditions of when we are going/where we are going. We've made claims against our travel insurance too- missed hotel rooms due to fires that shut down airports, a doctor's visit in the cruise ship. We often "self insure", but I don't want to self insure when it is more likely than normal that I would need an expensive medical evacuation. Scuba diving is one of those instances. Areas that don't have hospitals I trust are another. (Mexico's hospitals are pretty decent, from what I've been told, so if I wasn't diving, we don't get travel insurance for Cozumel- because I do have medical coverage there.)

I would never dive without DAN though.