Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[divezonescuba]

Having recently gone through this process, I can tell you that it is necessary for a dive shop to meet a number of qualifications aside of paying the fee. This includes access to a regularly tested compressor, a repair area, rental gear, oxygen, a confined water facility or arrangement with a confined water facility, etc. The PADI area representative actually has to come to your shop. The shop's application is then reviewed by a board at your PADI HQ prior to being accepted as a PADI dive center. A PADI dive center's certification is assurance of adherence to particular standards. Shops that do not adhere to the required standards are subject to review. We ourselves would not dive with a shop which was not PADI certified.

Also, in reference to an earlier post, in order for just anyone to look up an individual's certification level using DiveCheck, you also have to know the diver's birth date.

 

[WSOPFAN]

It boggles my mind to see some of the tangents that this thread has gone on and I really think that we can say that we have learnt all that we are going to learn about this accident and that it will be time to move on however if I can beg everyones indulgence for a second as I follow this PADI tangent.

What is the significance of a dive shop bieng a PADI dive shop. Is this merely a fee that one pays to have a well known symbol hangin in your window or does it mean some sort of quality control and oversight by PADI. I guess this is important as although I am a believer of me bieng responsible for my own safety and trust me diving bieng something never to be done I do rely on the presence of the PADI emblem as a sign of quality but if this is not the case how in fact does one go about assessing a dive op to ensure quality, safety and responsible practices. Sure you can assess much of this by asking questions and watching procedures enroute to your first dive site but is there a way that this can be done in a more formal way?

Craig

Interesting point you brought up.........I was thinking the same thing earlier as it might apply to new divers or anyone for that matter.......I thought every shop had to have some sort of minimum affiliation with some agency. I guess that is wrong so for future reference would it be safer for divers to dive with only an affiliated shop or even a 5 star PADI shop? I am sure we will hear the same argument once again......"I know a 5 star shop that stinks and a shop with no affiliation that is great".........I am sure the stories will vary but when I was a new diver long ago it never occurred to me.....now it does.

 

[boulderjohn]

I guess this is important as although I am a believer of me bieng responsible for my own safety and trust me diving bieng something never to be done I do rely on the presence of the PADI emblem as a sign of quality but if this is not the case how in fact does one go about assessing a dive op to ensure quality, safety and responsible practices.
Craig

In addition to what was said above, you can go to the PADI site and find the names of shops and individuals that have had their status terminated because of problems. You can also find (in unusual cases) information about shops that have falsely claimed to have official status or who have made other specious claims. For example there is a [-]shop[/-] [-]operator[/-] [-]instructor[/-] human being in Arizona who has a web site offering online instruction for the academic portion of open water instruction, and he says that it is accepted by all agencies. (I even called him to confirm.) The PADI site will tell you it is not true.

 

[Mike]

Having recently gone through this process, I can tell you that it is necessary for a dive shop to meet a number of qualifications aside of paying the fee. This includes access to a regularly tested compressor, a repair area, rental gear, oxygen, a confined water facility or arrangement with a confined water facility, etc. The PADI area representative actually has to come to your shop. The shop's application is then reviewed by a board at your PADI HQ prior to being accepted as a PADI dive center. A PADI dive center's certification is assurance of adherence to particular standards. Shops that do not adhere to the required standards are subject to review. We ourselves would not dive with a shop which was not PADI certified.

Also, in reference to an earlier post, in order for just anyone to look up an individual's certification level using DiveCheck, you also have to know the diver's birth date.

All you have to do to hang a Padi sign at your shop is have a Padi certified instructor on board. I've checked dive shops in the past for what they were and Padi told me directly that for a shop to hang a Padi sign or advertise Padi on their website, all they need is a Padi certified instructor affiliated with the shop. 'certified' may take more and then perhaps you can put 'certified' under the Padi logo or something. But I was told by Padi, that shops don't have to do anything to use the Padi name as long as they have the Padi instructor on board.

 

[gypsyjim]

I do believe the 5* PADI ranking is not so easily acquired. I have witnessed a resort face a threat of the loss of their certification for unsatisfactory and unsafe practice. Resort shall remain un-named, but as it later failed it makes no difference now.

 

[divezonescuba]

There is a difference between a shop that has a PADI sign up and a PADI Dive Center. Similarly, there is a difference between a PADI Dive Center and a PADI 5 star Center. A PADI Dive Center must have a large number of certifications in the correct level distribution among other things to become a 5 star center.

Prior to receiving our PADI Dive Center Certification, we issued PADI certifications, but the shop itself was not PADI affiliated.

In fact, a shop does not even actually need to have a PADI instructor on staff to put up a plain old PADI sticker on their door. They could also put up a NAUI, SSI or whatever sticker as well. Misleading and inappropriate, yes. I hope I have made my point.

A number of years ago a PADI affiliated shop in Aruba had their shop certification revoked due to a number of complaints that their employees were sexually harassing women both above and below the water. They no longer advertise as being a PADI shop, now they just say that they offer PADI certifications. So, yes, at least in this case, the difference between being a PADI dive center or 5 star center and a shop that offers PADI certifications is significant.

 

[WSOPFAN]

I do believe the 5* PADI ranking is not so easily acquired. I have witnessed a resort face a threat of the loss of their certification for unsatisfactory and unsafe practice. Resort shall remain un-named, but as it later failed it makes no difference now.

Funny you should mention that........I just checked Cozumel for the first time ever.....27 Padi shops.......12 are 5 star.........Not sure if I am more shocked who is 5 star or who is not listed at all......

 

[Mossman]

Funny you should mention that........I just checked Cozumel for the first time ever.....27 Padi shops.......12 are 5 star.........Not sure if I am more shocked who is 5 star or who is not listed at all......

To me, a "PADI 5-star" branding is a potential negative. It means that it's a large operation that is an integral part of the PADI marketing hoopla. If it's a dive resort and I'm staying there, fine. But in a place like Cozumel where there are many excellent small owner-operated dive operations, PADI 5-star might indicate cattle boat.

 

[DandyDon]

I can understand PADI providing information about professional certifications, but did they really divulge the certification status of a non-professional just on your asking? That's hardly very professional of them.

If you have a Padi card ever issued in your name, or know the probable name of a friend with a card & birthdate, go to Scuba Certification Cards - Replacement for Lost & Damaged Certifications - PADI Scuba Diver Training Organization and you can get C-numbers, levels, and dates issued. But for this discussion, the DMs could have been carded another agency.

It's easy to defame someone from behind the curtain of internet anonymity ... but the vehemence at a personal level in this case causes me to wonder if there's an ulterior motive ...

I did ask what his personal reasons are. Still wondering.

What is the significance of a dive shop bieng a PADI dive shop. Is this merely a fee that one pays to have a well known symbol hangin in your window or does it mean some sort of quality control and oversight by PADI. I guess this is important as although I am a believer of me bieng responsible for my own safety and trust me diving bieng something never to be done I do rely on the presence of the PADI emblem as a sign of quality but if this is not the case how in fact does one go about assessing a dive op to ensure quality, safety and responsible practices. Sure you can assess much of this by asking questions and watching procedures enroute to your first dive site but is there a way that this can be done in a more formal way?

Craig

It really doesn't mean much in my opinion. Dial 1800-PAY-PADI and ask them.

Having recently gone through this process, I can tell you that it is necessary for a dive shop to meet a number of qualifications aside of paying the fee. This includes access to a regularly tested compressor...

Cutting you off there to say "Nope! Not in years." That's another story tho.

 

[WSOPFAN]

To me, a "PADI 5-star" branding is a potential negative. It means that it's a large operation that is an integral part of the PADI marketing hoopla. If it's a dive resort and I'm staying there, fine. But in a place like Cozumel where there are many excellent small owner-operated dive operations, PADI 5-star might indicate cattle boat.

Sure some if not all might have cattle boats but if I were a new diver and insisted on a 5 star PADI with 6 pack fast boats I am sure some of the 12 have fast boats. In other words it would be much easier to justify a 5 star shop then defend a shop with no affiliation at all to a new diver or anyone really.