Creation vs. Evolution

[Diver Dennis]

Why can't you back it up? Do you want other people to do work that you are evolved in?

Thal and I are friends on this side of the argument. Do you mind Thal?

 

[venturediver]

I have a question. If the theory that man evolved from apes in order to adapt to the ever changing world around it, then why haven't we continued to evolve in to greater humans, and why haven't apes continued to evolve as their environment is eliminated and becomes more populated? If this theory is true, shouldn't some humans be superheroes and some apes be carrying briefcases? (Politicians excluded.)

 

[Lost_At_Sea]

I have a question. If the theory that man evolved from apes in order to adapt to the ever changing world around it, then why haven't we continued to evolve in to greater humans, and why haven't apes continued to evolve as their environment is eliminated and becomes more populated? If this theory is true, shouldn't some humans be superheroes and some apes be carrying briefcases? (Politicians excluded.)

Very good point.

 

[Lovin_sum_Bubbles]

Thank you...finally someone else on here who thinks with common sense

 

[Cacia]

maybe but it hasn't been long enough, if you look at the timeline.

We only just are starting to get rid of the wisdom teeth. Inherent morality might take awhile.

 

[Thalassamania]

Not at all, welcome aboard.

 

[neophyte]

I was shocked that this thread has gotten as many sincere, informed and thoughtful replies as it has.

I was also shocked that the TOS doesn't mention religion.

I was NOT shocked to see that discussion turned so quickly to the "argument from design" or "teleological argument". You summed it up neatly and concisely Lovin_sum_Bubbles when you wrote;

...when I see all of creation and see how intricate and beautiful it is...how could someone NOT have created it. There is obviously a Higher Intelligence that created it all...

This is indeed an old argument, or "proof" for the existence of God. The problems with it are legion, as are those who've tried their hand at pointing them out. I'll try to summarize my two favorite very briefly, off the top of my head.

1. This argument is most often stated as an analogy, e.g. "Watch is to Watchmaker as Earth is to Earthmaker", or, stated more generally "effect is to cause as effect is to cause". In other words, when I see something as intricate and beautiful as a watch, how could there not have been an intelligent watchmaker? The only way to plug our specifics into the analogy is to presuppose that the Earth is an effect.

Since that (the Earth being an effect) is what we are attempting to prove, we are begging the question. The argument is circular because the conclusion is one of the premises.

2. What is meant, precisely by "intricate" and "beautiful"? What sort of experience do we have which allows us to determine the intricacy and beauty of this planet or the life on it? Do we have experience of other planets and/or types of existence against which to judge this one?

Is a perfectly, flawlessly spherical rock (for example) more or less "intricate" than one with an irregular surface? Mathematically no, it would be exponentially simpler to feed numbers into a machine from which to reproduce it than those required to adequately describe the irregular one. If I came across the perfectly spherical stone though, that's the one I'd be more likely to assume influenced by some "Higher Intelligence". Beauty is so subjective I'm not even going to touch it here.

Here are several places to do a lot of reading on the argument from design, should anyone feel so inclined:

skepdic.com

infidels.org

wikipedia.org

philosophyofreligion.info

Of course evolution is a theory, like gravity and most everything else science does its best to define, quantify and predict with the help of all the evidences it can collect.

Faith is belief either in spite of or due to, an absence of evidence.

There is really no need for the two to compete, or for anyone to try to confuse or blur the distinctions between the them.

All the science anyone can imagine will never, ever remove either the need or room for mystery. Or wonder.

Personally, I find it distasteful when faith does.

I hope all of us, whether due to or in spite of our faith or lack thereof, find the time to wonder. I believe we can all be nourished and fulfilled by it.

YMM, of course, V

Thanks,

Adam

 

[Diver Dennis]

I have a question. If the theory that man evolved from apes in order to adapt to the ever changing world around it, then why haven't we continued to evolve in to greater humans, and why haven't apes continued to evolve as their environment is eliminated and becomes more populated? If this theory is true, shouldn't some humans be superheroes and some apes be carrying briefcases? (Politicians excluded.)

It takes time my friend. Man has been here for only a short time if you believe that the earth is older than 7,000 years. Evolution is not a quick process.

 

[Lost_At_Sea]

So "Mr. Evolutionist," what are the odds that man evolved into what we are today, just so happens that one male and one female evolved at the same time and just happened to figure out reproduction. So now tell me the odds of that actually happening instead of two males or two females being evolved? Do you actually think we came from nothing into what we are today? The odds are too great against us.

 

[Thalassamania]

Saint Anselm of Canterbury said something like, "God is that that is greater than the greatest that we can imagine."

And the modern corollary is that God is shrinking.