Cylinder Trim - Help?

[Razorista]

So i'm clear, you mean that the Bungee pulls back from the Armpit and the boltsnap pulls the cylinder back toward the bungee? (that is to say, both ends are pulling toward the centre of the cylinder?)

Exactly

Yes, I use the loop bungee system, my cylinders have the manifold extensions, but my Bolt snaps are attached inline with the the manifold extension, not inline with the valve outlet?

You are completely right.
I mistranslated my own words and did not realize, sorry.
The way you do it is the way I meant to describe.

---------- Post added July 30th, 2014 at 10:18 AM ----------

When you get it tensioned for two does it mess things up when it is four, tension wise?

I do not use more than two most of the time. Four I never used actively, only played around with it.
I attach stages similar to sidemount tanks with an additional boltsnap bungeed around the tank neck and clipped into teh shoulder D-ring.

Top mounted the additional stages are more stable if the main sidemount tanks do not move and stay in good position.
Bottom mounted they are not affected at all before empty and then they are held in place again by the tanks above them.

---------- Post added July 30th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ----------

the only video

This looks a bit uncomfortable to me, but not to bad for full 12liters. The boltsnaps are pressing into your back and the square D-rings are pulled to the sides.

I am sure the bottom attachment can be moved down and the bungee has to be a little bit shorter, or stronger.
But I do not think you can get the cylinders to really be further back - from my point of view the valve position is ok the way it is.

The Stealth has more ways to change the bungee than the Razor has. I do not know precisely if moving the bungee attachment on your back will help too. It will move the tank back more effectively than any other change, but it might also stop you from getting the boltsnap low enough on the tank for optimal balance (when more of the cylinder is extending past the attachment, it tents to move more too).

 

[djcheburashka]

So i'm clear, you mean that the Bungee pulls back from the Armpit and the boltsnap pulls the cylinder back toward the bungee? (that is to say, both ends are pulling toward the centre of the cylinder?)

This will happen as long as the bungee is taut. (Picture it...)

Balancing the cylinder position of the clips is tricky. Try using clips attached to a cam strap and adjusting it in different ways so you get used to the effect of different positions and settle on one you like.

You can try to guesstimate the starting distance -- the distance from your armpit to the bottom of the waist strap at the d ring is about the same as the distance from the valve knob to the top of the screw clamp.

Yes, I use the loop bungee system, my cylinders have the manifold extensions, but my Bolt snaps are attached inline with the the manifold extension, not inline with the valve outlet?

I do it inline with the valve, which is the way it's "officially" supposed to be done according to the designers. I tried it other ways first , then corrected the other issues and realized that inline-with-valve is right.

Try working the valve knob with one hand-it should be easy to locate and manipulate if you have the twist right.

The stealth gets put together the same way.

 

[Razorista]

I do it inline with the valve, which is the way it's "officially" supposed to be done according to the designers.

Since I mistakenly wrote the same thing at the beginning of this thread before Sidemount_Stu corrected my error I want to stress that this is not the way the designers recommend.

For the Razor as well as the Stealth the recommended way is exactly like Sidemount_Stu has described.

For the Stealth the designer himself:
http://www.protecsidemount.com/
http://www.protecsidemount.com/images/stealth-sidemount-diving-mexico.jpg

For the Razor Steve Martin:
http://sidemounting.com/Portals/0/LiveContent/483/Images/Change from Twinset to Sidemount.jpg

 

[djcheburashka]

Oy this is ridiculous ... It's like a game of misinformation... Dude give it up

 

[Razorista]

Oy this is ridiculous ... It's like a game of misinformation... Dude give it up

If you say so...

Your information is wrong however and I just proved that to you with two simple pictures.
Who is misinforming people here?

At least I do not have to wonder anymore why the strong and unselfconscious Tech Diver is unable to lift more load then me.
His main sidemount tanks are not configured correctly for the system he is using, presumably.

On the other hand this is absolutely correct and good advice, I think:

Balancing the cylinder position of the clips is tricky. Try using clips attached to a cam strap and adjusting it in different ways so you get used to the effect of different positions and settle on one you like.

You can try to guesstimate the starting distance -- the distance from your armpit to the bottom of the waist strap at the d ring is about the same as the distance from the valve knob to the top of the screw clamp.

See, sidemount is easy, even if anyone can get a detail wrong once in a while. eace2:

 

[djcheburashka]

Dude so far you've made it totally clear that you don't actually do any real diving with the rig. You claim boat experiences that don't make sense. You deceptive weighting situations that are totally illogical. You make claims about equipment behavior that anyone who's actually used the gear knows are bogus.

You've already admitted you *never* do any serious diving. I'm becoming suspicious whether you dive *at*all*.

---------- Post added August 8th, 2014 at 04:26 AM ----------

And by the way-posting *other peoples* pictures out of context without their description or explanation is misleading, not helpful.

 

[Razorista]

Actually you are the one here who was sure of something that can easily proven to be false and misleading to others.

You are not able to see that you have not mastered use of your brandnew equipment - that's sad but to be expected - and it is your problem, not mine.

You claim not to be able to do the dives you desire with you skill (and I am not attacking you for it the same way).
I can do the dives I desire to do, however. I have been using the Razor for a few years now and have gotten used to always having to defend it faced with false claims of limits and impossibilities.

BTW: people who talk about 'real diving' or 'serious diving' in discussions show to have no idea what they are talking about in my experience...

 

[djcheburashka]

But the dives you want to do aren't what the rest of us who use this gear would consider serious dives. Event the configurations you suggest seem cockamamie, like what very amateur wanna be tech divers do before they know what they're doing.

I have more than 200 dives in my razor, including numerous deco and overhead environment dives, to a max depth of 215', with up to two main steel tanks, two deco bottles, and a scooter. I've done wreck penetrations lasting up to an hour. Plus 4 diver rescues.

The only thing I haven't found a skill to do, is a back hot drop entry with that gear config.


As for you... You can't use deco gas, but you dive with two huge steel cylinders you're unable to carry on land. You dropped out of 3 sidemount classes and one of your recurring problems is your team gets annoyed waiting for you on the descent. You can't even get your gear properly weighted and you're worried about shifting weight position by millimeters.

 

[Razorista]

You are starting to bore me.

You seem to think you know much more than you do and you are welcome to.
I am not interested in this kind of a discussion with you and I am not the one asking the questions.

_________________________
But to get some facts across:
I do not like deco dives and seldom do those (seldom, not never).
I do not have a technical diving education (and do neither need nor want one).

I am however diving with the Razor2 as long as it exists. Way more then 200 dives, more than that each year.
Not high profile, to a maximum depth of around 130' and not longer than a couple of hours, but also including some wreck and overhead environments.
Over the years I tried out everything that has ever been criticized about sidemount or the Razor for myself or got someone to try it for me.

I believe I know as much about it as anyone you can meet on the internet.
I am not open to discussion about who is entitled to offer his opinion in a Forum and who is not.

 

[djcheburashka]

Ok buy bye