Da**ed Coral Killers!

[Popeye]

about the fact that the agencies all seem to think that BOW skills are to be performed....

kneeling on the bottom!

The DIR guys make a big noise about this.

Honestly, in my opinion, instructors have the studii kneel so the class stays together, not because they need to to do the skill.

In the amount of time it takes to do an individual skill, buoyancy doesn't have time to become an issue anyway.

I've seen a few masks kicked off in my day, but I -never- saw anyone -kneel down- to put it back on (or to do a reg recovery).

 

[Butch103]

again any reference to an agency, organization is mute. Referring to how great DIR divers are (referring to their bouyancy) or how inadequate the bouyancy skills are...... If they are standing on the coral and you can see their heads above the water....bouyancy doesn't mean squat.................

 

[Popeye]

Butch103 once bubbled...
If they are standing on the coral and you can see their heads above the water....bouyancy doesn't mean squat.................

Odd that the commercial boat they were diving off would be in water that shallow.

I missed any reference to heads -above- water.

But you're right about the agencies.

 

[The Chairman]

Surely you are not proposing that kneeling on the SAND will have a significant environmental impact??? And surely anyone can see that buoyancy and trim must be taught AFTER mask removal and reg retrievals. Why make a student deal with multiple variables on their first or second dive? Why not just beat the mental crap out of them and call them strokes and get it over with?

The "more buoyant than thou" attitudes get old after a while. No agency can control what a diver does after their training. NONE!!! They might think they do, but even that is merely a misguided lie at best. Now, remove these "students" by a decade with many unsupervised dives without any continuing instruction at all and what do you get? Divers who have learned what they can get away with. Can you even start to equate these students with the agency that trained them initially? Be real! They are crappy divers all by themselves and are obviously NOT following their training.

 

[Popeye]

NetDoc once bubbled...

The "more buoyant than thou" attitudes get old after a while. No agency can control what a diver does after their training. NONE!!! They might think they do, but even that is merely a misguided lie at best. Now, remove these "students" by a decade with many unsupervised dives without any continuing instruction at all and what do you get? Divers who have learned what they can get away with. Can you even start to equate these students with the agency that trained them initially? Be real! They are crappy divers all by themselves and are obviously NOT following their training.

Pete gets it.

Dive 50-75 times a year for ten years, you develop your own style.

Dive 5-10 times a year for ten years, you never had a style.

Neither of these styles came from your instructor or agency.

 

[Genesis]

I'm not.

But what I am suggesting is that the skills that these agencies - including the one that trained me - think are important don't include neutral buoyancy.

In fact, nowhere on the critical skill list does that one appear.

Yes, I know it takes practice. This makes it invalid as a critical skill..... how?

I'm not a "DIR-type". Not in the least. But I do recognize that maintaining neutral buoyancy is a critical skill for diving - and it should be taught as one.

 

[Jester]

I don't want to imply that I have a ton of experience in a teaching environment, but as a recently certified DM with PADI, I can say that every class that I've been associated with taught both Fin Pivots and Hovering. I believe that qualifies as "neutral bouyancy."

 

[Genesis]

yes.

If you can offset a neutral buoyancy defect with movement then it doesn't count - obviously.

When I took my training it was certainly mentioned, but it wasn't a "critical skill" that had to be mastered to pass. You had to be able to flood and clear your mask, and retrieve a regulator, but you didn't have to be able to hover in the water column, motionless, for even as little as 10 seconds.

 

[Jester]

There doesn't seem to be a great deal of emphasis placed on the mastery of neutral bouyancy, but I guess this takes us back to the discussion about the importance of the agency vs. the importance of the instructor.

I've been very lucky so far to only be associated with instructors who care very much about the welfare of both their students and the diving environment. That combination is a formula for success, regarless of the certifying agency.

 

[raviepoo]

NetDoc once bubbled...


The "more buoyant than thou" attitudes get old after a while.

Thank you for saying that.

Bouancy is a skill. It must be practiced to be mastered. I was taught neutral bouyancy in my OW class but the way I ended up finally getting it was practice, practice, practice. For my first dozen or so dives I had to keep swimming to control where I was in the water. I sucked at bouyancy.

That said, I NEVER, NEVER NEVER, knocked into or damaged living reef. I did what I had to do to keep from killing anything. I kept swimming. I kept off the reef. I swam over the sea fans instead of (literally) through them.

This thread did not begin as a discussion of scuba skills or the relative merits of different training agencies. It began as a complaint about the bad behaviour of a couple of inconsiderate jerks who should not be allowed in the water.