Da**ed Coral Killers!

[Cave Diver]

raviepoo once bubbled...
This thread did not begin as a discussion of scuba skills or the relative merits of different training agencies. It began as a complaint about the bad behaviour of a couple of inconsiderate jerks who should not be allowed in the water.

Hey Unky Pug,

I think we can officially credit the hi-jacking of this thread to your total! (and we thought it was just O-ring that did that!)

 

[The Chairman]

hijacked this thread. He did bring up the fact that we tend to blame agencies for everything that is wrong in our sport. Just as we teach our students that a safe dive is THEIR responsibility, so don't let someone elsed plan it, we also teach that environmental responsibility is theirs as well.

I teach NOT ONLY neutral buoyancy, but trim as well. We play games with neutral buoyancy in the pool, and a student can not pass my class if they can't do it. So you can say it is "not critical" all you like, but without it you don't pass my class. I am more forgiving about trim, but we do analyse that along with their buoyancy skills after every dive.

 

[Genesis]

and a RARE one as well!

I know there are good instructors out there 'Doc.... just wish there were more of them, and that the agencies (all of them!) paid more attention to this stuff in "primary" training.

I view buoyancy control as something like learning to land in a plane. Yeah, you can fly without it, but that last foot or two is murder!

 

[MikeFerrara]

The agence(s) may not condone poor skills or the obuse of the environment. They preach buoyancy control. However they know what is going on and choose to do nothing about it. A student who develops good skills and ethics for that matter will not (in my experience) choose to walk on the bottom. a diver who is tought how important good skills are will be better even when rusty. How many instructors introduce their students to the DAN report especially the parts that make clear that poor skills and accidents go hand in hand and that with good akills especialy buoyancy control the accident just don't happen? IMO, emergency procedures practice is of little use without the buoyancy control to be able to stay put while solving a problem.

Agencies and instructors need to quit making excuses and rationalizing the poor diving we see, take some responsibility and do something about it.

With the kind of classes I see in the water all the time the agencies would have NO TROUBLE AT ALL finding shops and instructors who need to be streightened out. They choose not to.

In Sort Diver Magazine (the latest issue) which is the official PADI Diving society rag on page 44 their is a two page picture of a bunch of students doing a shore entry with all their equipment dangling and in general looking a mess. They have photographic evidence of a standards violation. What are they doin? Is this how they want people to dive? Or...maybe they don't know the difference either.

It stinks. there isn't any excuse for it it is just sloppy and irresponsible.

 

[jepuskar]

While in Bonaire I accidently rubbed one of my fins on some coral a couple times. It was purely unintentional, but I felt like an arse anyway.

I can't imagine seeing someone intentionally standing on coral. I would go ballistic and would say something..NO DOUBT!

Chances are I would have my video camera with me so I would video tape them doing the act.....then out of the water, I would make polite conversation with them and find out where they are staying and get their first names.

Then I would contact the Marine Park officials and show them the tape and then bring them to the hotel where these people are staying at and then get their management involved.

Finally, I would call Jesse Jackson up and have him get involved, because Jesse gets involved in everything!!

 

[pops]

i tend to mind my own business and expect other people to do the same. right or wrong - telling strangers to modify their behavior to my specifications because i'm smarter than them or morally superior is pretty risky.

 

[MikeFerrara]

pops once bubbled...
i tend to mind my own business and expect other people to do the same. right or wrong - telling strangers to modify their behavior to my specifications because i'm smarter than them or morally superior is pretty risky.

You wouldn't be trying to modify our behavior with that comment would you?

As an instructor of recreational divers for through the recreational agencies I think this type of behavior is my business. Maybe too many folks mind their own business. Maybe when folks conduct themselves like that around us on our reefs they make it our business.

What does it take before a Texan figures something is their business?

Since we didn't stop them but rather are here talking amung ourselves I guess we did mind our own business. But then there you go...we have someone butting into our business telling us they don't approve. So that's how it's done in Texas huh?

 

[Cave Diver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
What does it take before a Texan figures something is their business?

Since we didn't stop them but rather are here talking amung ourselves I guess we did mind our own business. But then there you go...we have someone butting into our business telling us they don't approve. So that's how it's done in Texas huh?

Easyyyyy Mike. Just because his comments are coming from Texas doesn't mean he speaks for all us Texans.

 

[cat]

then they'll think it's ok. And so will everyone who sees them.

I guess that evryone has to decide for themselves where their personal liine between "minding own business" and social responsibility lies but...

this isn't like tattling on your little brother 'cause you saw him stealing cookies. The incident described is a deliberate violation of rules set up to protect a fragile ecosystem - and if they aren't followed, you'll probably see more draconian rules brought in (apart from the moral issue involved here). Self-policing of any recreational activity like this (back-country hiking seems comparable) comes under the heading of "enlightened self-interest".

jepusakar bubbled:

I can't imagine seeing someone intentionally standing on coral. I would go ballistic and would say something..NO DOUBT!

Yup - me too. Have done so on numerous occasions during rockpooling trips when I caught someone taking or destroying the wildlife. It's nice to be able to do it with the weight of my aquatic biologist qualifications (and, often and sadly enough, the Canadian National Parks rules) behind me but even if I didn't have them, I'd still say something. Politely, if I didn't think they knew any better - projected loud enough for the whole beach to hear if I did.
The incidents I regret are the ones where (as a shy teenager) I did and said *nothing* - ever seen live starfish and those big beautiful moon snails laid out in the sun to die just 'cause some <insert own expletive here> wants some trophies?
My bouyancy control still sucks, IMO, so I'm not going anywhere fragile until I fix it (zebra mussel beds don't count and they're good for practice). Not that accidents don't happen to experienced divers too (obviously), but if I go somewhere like a reef when I know darn well I'm likely to do harm, I'm almost as bad as those who deliberately stand on the coral, right?

(Just hope you remember to surface before yelling, jepuskar - moral outrage is less effective when expressed as a stream of bubbles and it's usually more effective to dress down idiots in front of an audience) cat

 

[raviepoo]

I've made it my business to care about the continued existence of coral reefs and the continued health of the aquatic environment.

The more folks who take an interest in my business, the more fun diving will be for future generations of divers.

It would also be kind of nice to know that turtles and sharks and tuna and heck, even homo sapiens will survive into the next century.