ianr33
Contributor
What if it was a pair of fins. Or a boltsnap. The horror!
Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL
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What if it was a pair of fins. Or a boltsnap. The horror!
We don't know what the cave diver friend (Brooks) loaned and we don't know whether the loaner stuff was still on loan. It sounds like it might have been loaned exactly with the advice of taking a cave course and the intent that Spivey practise to do exactly that.
I would suspect most of us have borrowed gear to learn how to use it as part of preparing for a class. I know I borrowed the first stage bottle, reel and doubles I ever used. I didn't take them to depths or conditions beyond my training and I suspect that very, very few pre-course or pre-purchase borrowers ever do.
We don't know for a fact that the lending in this case was intended to be anything different.
I can also picture that if gear was loaned in good faith for appropriate practise before taking a class, having later realized what was actually going going on, a lender might find that getting his gear back from a bullhead like this might not be so easily done.
This friend might indeed have knowingly and repeated aided these misadventures, but we don't know that. Esp. since this friend's name has made it into the papers it would be best to not jump to conclusions.
I would suspect most of us have borrowed gear to learn how to use it as part of preparing for a class. I know I borrowed the first stage bottle, reel and doubles I ever used. I didn't take them to depths or conditions beyond my training and I suspect that very, very few pre-course or pre-purchase borrowers ever do.
We don't know for a fact that the lending in this case was intended to be anything different.
I can also picture that if gear was loaned in good faith for appropriate practise before taking a class, having later realized what was actually going going on, a lender might find that getting his gear back from a bullhead like this might not be so easily done.
This friend might indeed have knowingly and repeated aided these misadventures, but we don't know that. Esp. since this friend's name has made it into the papers it would be best to not jump to conclusions.
gianaameri
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The Tampa Bay article says,
"Spivey tried to reassure Brooks that he was staying in Eagle Nest's entrance room — a large cavern known as the Ballroom that reaches depths of about 200 feet — and not heading into the narrower tunnels. The Ballroom is still a dangerous place for a diver who hasn't had professional cave training, Brooks said."
This is just wrong. If people want to do things that ends in their deaths because they violate established community rules for an activity, then it is better that a few people die than infringe on the freedoms of the majority of people.
What was the gear configuration of the two divers? Two tanks each? What size tanks?
There was a comment made that they would have needed an hour of deco. That seems unlikely with a short exposure at 233'.
How long were they down at significant depths?
Will we see the dive profile (depth versus time and ideally gas remaining)?
so selfish what the father was doing. As a mom and a (hypoxic trimix certified) diver i hope the family can understand the truth of the risks this man was taking, and how he did not respect or understand by choice what he was doing. Its so unfair to the rest of us that learn from quality instructors, and progress conservativly in our diving....very very sad. I hope the family reads these comments.
ianr33
Contributor
PfcAJ
Contributor
It doesn't take long to rack up a ton of deco when your only ascent gas is air (and they might have had something else in those tanks left at the mound. I don't really know).
Pics from FB show what appears to be either 95s of 104s (or their 3442psi equivalents). At 200ft (perhaps a reasonable average depth for them. I don't know how long they really spent there, but 200 is probably a decent guesstimate), that gives them roughly 35mins of gas at depth (full 3600psi 95s, sac rate of 1.0cuft). Could have been longer, could have been shorter, but you get the idea.
35mins at 200ft on air gives a total deco time of 219mins (buhlmann gf 20/85, produced with deco planner). VPM+2 shows 183mins. That's a lot of time. Even a rather short bottom time of 15mins yields 43mins of decompression time via buhlmann.
Even if you throw in 50% and 100% oxygen as ascent gases, you're still on the hook for 70mins of deco after a 200ft for 35min dive (vpm+2, what I typically dive).
Its super easy to outrun your gas supplies on dives like this when you don't know what you're doing.
R
redacted
Guest
USN dive table 5 puts that at 7 minutes ascent time plus 30 minutes of deco, on air, between 30 and 10 feet. Very doable with a couple staged Al 80s. Although the lack of certifications does bring their qualifications into question, it seems to me they had a gas plan go bad. Wrong SACs; depth or time variations - who knows. I do have to acknowledged one of Spivey's, last decisions. He almost surely had enough gas to get one person out.
Maybe the father or the family should redirect their efforts. They should contact the NSS-CDS and NACD and offer thier time to bring awareness to others about the dangers.
When somone creates an updated version of A Deceptively Way To Die, maybe the family can be a part of it.
He's just looking out for our best interests... I mean really... If the evil nest can kill his naturally skilled, competent and safety minded son & grandson, what chances do we have?
I understand the man is grieving and I feel bad for him but if he chooses to pursue an agenda like this he should be made aware that thousands of safe dives have taken place between the Christmas day fatalities and the previous death back in 2009. A death I seem to recall also revolved around another non-cave trained diver using equipment that was fairly new to him in one of the last places he should be with it.
The only people EN (and every other cave) truly is a danger to are people like his son, who have been given every warning, only to disregard each as if it doesn't apply to them. Fortunately, I think the powers that be realize this this guy went out of his way to kill himself and his son and the cave doesn't need dynamiting to keep the ignorant from killing themselves.
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