Deciding on gear and whether to get it

[victorzamora]

Hey guys, I'm new here but not new to forums nor am I new to scuba diving. I'm at somewhere in the 200-250 dives range. I took a break for a few years, dove with my fiancee for her cert dives, then got my advanced in Roatan (favorite dive spot). So I got my Jr Open Water in 2004 and my advanced in 2012. I'm 21, in college (Virginia Tech) and my fiancee is 20 and at VT as well. We plan to start doing more diving around here and hope to get into it for good, and hopefully do a NC OBX trip this summer for wrecks and spearing.

Okay, to the point: I've never owned gear before, and never really had a need for my own gear. However, my fiancee and I hope to start diving more often and I hope to make that hold true. In Roatan, full gear rental is $5 per dive (not worth buying gear) but here it's MUCH more expensive....to the point of making it worth buying my own gear. I guess my questions are how often do I have to dive to make owning my own gear worth it, what kind of maintenance is required on gear, what concerns should I have for aging gear, how long does it last if treated properly? Another problem is I have too many hobbies. Guns last forever if well-treated, so investing in a gun will always last. What if I don't do any diving for 4 years....will my gear be crap?

If I decide to get gear, I'll hopefully have as much as $1000 for a whole setup. I might have to settle with $700. I'm looking around, and I like BP/W for its size and weight and simplicity. My two requirements are: (1)good warranty, good quality, but basic. (2)Light, compact, reliable.

The BC I was looking at was the Zeagle Express Tech. I was also considering the Hollis Ride, but can't justify the cost over the Zeagle. Any opinions? As to my reg, I have no idea what to do. I was also looking at a combo from ScubaToys (Extreme Reg and BPW combo and upgrading the harness to elite and BP to SS) but that is the VERY limit of my budget. Any opinions?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I am a big fan of the Express Tech as a travel and teaching BC. If you are going to use iit for all your diving then it will fit that bill as well but I'd urge you to upgrade to the larger 30 or 35 lb wing. If ordered that way it adds very little if anything to the cost. Your other option is a BPW. Either stainless or aluminum plate and a wing in the 30-35 lb range. Some wings will also require a single tank adapter while others do not. The ones I sell, HOG, do not. A BPW is always going to be compact and light. I take mine in carry on in a backpack. Even with the steel plate it is not a problem. I just set up what for me is an ultra light warm water only rig or something I'd use with smaller steel tanks and a 3 or 5 mil suit consisting of an aluminum plate and 23 lb travel wing. The nice thing about it though if I do decide to dive steels is I can still use the al plate but put my 32 lb wing on it.

I like a HOG harness as well since once adjusted it fits me the same way every time. I see no need for comfort or adjustable harnesses since once underwater, especially with a suit on, you don't even notice the harness.

As for warranty the new wings coming out from HOG carry a ten year warranty against pinch flats. Thanks to a ballistic 200 deneir bladder rather than urethane.


Regs are one of those items that you can spend an arm and a leg on or get just as good performance and reliability for much less than many expect or what some dealers and mfg's would have you believe. You could spend your entire budget on just a first and second stage and it would be no better than one for half or less the price. What do you really need in a reg? Well simply a first stage, 2 seconds, hoses, and an SPG. Really that's it.

I'd also recommend a reg that is environmentally sealed since you'll be doing saltwater according to your post. Does not have to be but IMO makes care and manintenance a little easier. I'm also of the camp where your octo should be of equal quality to your primary. Easy enough to do. The HOG single tank package that I use for single tank diving costs less complete than some of the so called upper mid range regs where you only get a first and second stage. With an SPG.

Now as to maintenance. Wings and plates need to be rinsed and properly stored. Wings are very easy and the inflator is a do it yourself maintenance item. Disassemble, clean, lube, and reassemble. Not rocket science and if you can walk and chew gum at the same time you can service an inflator. Regs need careful rinsing and hung up to dry overnight and then stored coiled in a cool dry place. Different mfg's have different service intervals they recommend or require. Some offer so called "free parts" programs. Truth is they really are not. You do pay for them. Either up front or in labor costs when they require you to service them every year to stay in the program.

Most regs used recreationally do not need rebulit every year. An annual inspection is a good idea and I highly recommend that but a complete rebuild is generally not a must. I do an inspection and cleaning for 25 per reg set plus any out of the ordinary parts costs. Included in what I chareg for is replacing all hose o rings, spg spool o rings, clean, lube and adjust pressures. Full rebuilds are at 45 an hour plus parts. For the brands I do that runs around 90 bucks for a full deal. Now that is every two years. Compared to a free parts for life service where you pay 75-100 for labor every year. Even with the inspection added in it costs 125 or so every two years as opposed to 150-200 every two years in the "free parts" programs.

Your part in maintaining your regs entails rinsing, drying, being aware of any changes in how they are working, and some other items like hose and spg orings you can also do yourself with minimal training and tools. Think 10 minutes and two wrenches plus the orings and a little lube. Now for saltwater regs I recommend you also soak the second stages every 20 dives or so in warm water in addition to rinsing just to take care of any residual salt build up especially if you have a day or two where you are pressed for time and may not rinse as well as you should. Allowing regs to dry with any residue will start a cycle of it and it builds up quicker than you may think. Spg connection should be taken apart, checked, and cleaned and relubed when you do the soak of the seconds. Do not soak the spg itself! Follow these general guidelines and your maintenance costs will reflect it. Being proactive saves you cash.

I could easliy outfit you with everything you need and stay in your budget.

 

[victorzamora]

Thanks for the heads up about all of the maintenance. Seems to me like the typical maintenance that I'm used to. With the regs, you hit the nail on the head with my concern. Besides washing and rinsing BP/W's, how do they hold up to dry rot? I mean, if I buy the gear, dive 6 tanks a week for 6 months, and then put it up for 3 years, how will they fare? If they're stored in a cool, dry place after having been properly cleaned (or even stored in a "vacuum bag") how will BP/W handle it? How about compared to a "typical" BCD?

Also, the HOG gear is nearing the price of Hollis gear (Oceanic's Tech-diving branch)....why should I buy the HOG gear? I keep hearing mixed reviews about HOG equipment, and (sorry, but) since you have a financial stake in HOG how do I know that it's what is best for me. Believe me, I'm impressed that a dealer was the first to answer my post....it's a huge plus. Also, I don't mean that insultingly....it's a sincere question. I like supporting the underdog, but Oceanic has the name it does for a reason.

Also, I forgot to add this...but I'm 6'6" and about 250lbs if that matters. My fiancee is 5'8" and 130lbs. Depending on whether we decide to get gear or not, we'll both be looking for gear. She has 6 logged post-certification dives, 10 total OW dives including her 4 cert dives. Totally different gear, or the same?

One question untouched is: should I get my own gear or not? And by that, I mean....at what point is it worth it to buy my own gear?

Follow-up question, are there any "cons" to buying a higher lift wing? Is there a reason (other than cost) to stick with a 30# wing over a 40# wing?

 

[TSandM]

How often do you need to dive to justify owning your own gear? Well, take the $1000 budget you have and divide it by the cost per day of renting, and that tells you how many dives you'll have to do to have spent the same amount of money. Figure out how many years it would take you to do that many dives.

For example, I paid about $800 for my first dry suit. At $60 a day for rental, I had it paid for in less than 15 dives. (I figured that suit cost me about $2 a dive, by the time I sold it.)

Maintenance on a BC and regulator is pretty minimal. Gear has to be washed and/or soaked after use in salt water. Inflators need to be serviced periodically, which is a simple DIY; if you have to have them serviced in a shop, it's probably a wash on replacing them altogether. New modules cost about $30. Regulators need service periodically as well, and manufacturers differ on how frequently this needs to be done to maintain warranty, but it's usually every one or two years. Service cost where I am is about $100 per regulator setup -- first stage and two seconds.

I did a quick look around, and it looks very possible to put a BP/W and reg setup together within your $1000 budget. $700 might be a little tight; at that point, you might have to look at some used equipment.

Don't discount the increased convenience and frequency of diving of having your own gear, not to mention the increased comfort when you know your stuff really well and can find everything without looking. Those are not minor things.

 

[nimoh]

I always think it is a good idea to have your own gear. With your own gear you will get to the point where you can grab things (like items on your d-rings) without looking which can drastically improve your reaction time in an emergency.

The "con" to a higher lift wing when you don't need it is the increased drag when moving through the water, obviously not as big a deal as too little lift which can be life threatening.

I am not familiar with the express tech, but I think Jim points out the higher lift wing so that as you add gear such as a canister light you won't have to increase the lift of your BC.

 

[Paladin]

I have been a staunch Aqua-Lung fan since the mid 1960s. They are nearly indestructible and and utterly dependable. The Conshelf/Titan regulators are tried and true regs with decades of experience behind their design. That said, I recently purchased an Edge Epic (made by the same folks who give us the HOG) from Jim Lapenta and I can tell you that it is every bit as good a regulator as the Aqua-Lung but at a lower price. It's easy to service and is as dependable a reg as you can get. Both stages are balanced and the second is fully diver adjustable. I bought the Epic for my son and he loves it. I currently dive an Aqua-Lung Conshelf 14, but when it's time for a new reg, I'm going with the Epic.


As for Jim Lapenta, I know the man and have dealt with him. There are a couple of things you can count on: One, HE WILL NOT LIE TO YOU! He is honest and reliable. A bit opinionated at times, but dependable and straight-forward. You can count on what he tells you. The man knows his stuff. Second, if you have an issue with anything you buy from him, he will make it right. Personally, I have no hesitation about buying from him or following his advice.

 

[victorzamora]

Well, renting a tank is no more than $10....and gear rental at the lds here is $45 per weekend. So that puts me at saving $35 per weekend of diving. That works out to ($1000/35($/dive)) 28.6 weekends of diving. Unfortunately, I don't think that 30 weekends will really be accomplished in Southwest Virginia by someone spoiled by the Caribbean...you know? I have no way of knowing whether I'll dive a lot (as two of my room mates say they plan to) or not....the longer I wait, the less money I save. Diving in Roatan, it's $5 if you do less than 10 dives with most dive shops...more than 10 and it's free. But regardless, that's 200 dives before I recoup my money. However, a fee for a certain added convenience I'm willing to pay. I don't know what the most is I'd be willing to pay, but at this point it's not much. I just don't have the scratch to throw down for everything I want, you know?

About what may have sounded like accusatory remarks, I didn't mean it in an offensive way and I never said he was lying. At least he was straight-forward about being a HOG dealer...not all retailers are honest when they promote a product. Seems to me like that kind of person would only sell things they believed in, and promote them accordingly. You can tell a lot by relatively the smallest actions of a man. However, retailers seem to have a way of viewing their products through rose-colored glasses. I simply don't want to be out $1000 of cash I've been having a HARD time getting and I'll have a MUCH harder time getting back just because someone's proud of their stuff a little too much. I'm involved with multiple hobbies and have seen it across the boards. Dirt bikes, computers, guns, rc planes....it's understandable. Like I said, I'm not new to forums I'm just new to this one.

I guess a follow-up question I hadn't considered is this: would it be worth it to buy a reg sans BCD or BCD without the reg?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As a followup on this. If you told me that you knew for certain that you were going to dive the 6 days for 6 months and then not again for three years I'd say don't bother buying any new gear. Buy a used reg of good quality that has been recently serviced by a good tech and a $50 BC from ebay. And rather than put them away for three years not using them at all sell or give them to someone who would use them.

If you could dive 6 tanks a week for 6 months a used reg and used BC would easily handle that and you would be out very little. But if you plan to dive regularly and not walk away for years at a time then it would pay to get the best you could afford.

The nice thing about the express tech or the BPW is either will fit you both, just adjust the straps to fit and they will be that way from then on. If one or the other I'd choose a reg over a BC. I can dive any BC and be in trim within a few minutes in the water. Even if it does not fit quite right. A reg is something I want to know works and works as it should.

My personal feeling is if I am going to buy gear I'm going to use it. I'm settled enough now that scuba is my main interest. And there are so many directions I don't need to get back into the guns, bows, dirtbikes, etc. Been there done that and I'm getting too old to spread myself thin with a lot of stuff that at some point will end up sitting. I have friends whose bikes I could ride, another has handguns if I want to shoot, and my shoulder will not let me draw a bow now consistently.

Diving is a commitment you either make or you don't and if you're unsure if you are ready to make it, don't. But if you do, respect it and treat it and the gear as you would any other.

BTW I don't sell Zeagle but have recommended it over HOG and Edge gear when appropriate. A good friend and dive buddy tried my plate and wing and was not fully sold on it. I called another dealer and helped him set up his ET. I didn't make dime off the sale but my friend got the bc that he needed and will use. That is worth more to me than a sale.

 

[aquaregia]

Regs last well and are generally good investments. I've been pleased with my HOG regs (some of which came from Jim), but I'm also a big fan of older regs. I moved to the HOGs from 30-year-old ScubaPros for a variety of reasons, but performance wasn't a deciding factor.

I'm continually surprised at the punishment BCs can take. I've put mine through a lot, the oldest of which date to the early 1980s. I prefer a BP/W over basically anything else including back inflates because I resent non-catastrophic, non-repairable failure. That is, a ripped pocket can effectively write off a conventional BC. If I have to replace a broken wing, I expect it to be on fire. Underwater. Twice.

Owning half a set of gear means you still don't own a set of gear. It might cut down on your rental costs, but you don't get the added benefits of complete ownership that TS&M mentioned. I started diving with some pretty questionable gear, but I had I not had a complete set, I probably wouldn't have dived enough to really get into it.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

You're in college on a limited budget.
You are somewhat uncertain about how much diving you'll be doing in the short-to-mid-term.
Based on this info, I'd recommend being patient and buying used gear in good-to-excellent condition.
Spend the leftover money on a trip and/or airfills.
Once you have a real-world job with a disposable income (and you're sure that you'll be doing a lot of diving for years to come), it might make sense to splurge on some new stuff.

Depending on the pre-owned market in your local area, you may be able to find a used BP/W in the $200 range. Used backplates can often be found at very reasonable prices, and if a warranty is important to you, you can buy a brand new HOG wing for $200. For used gear, if possible, stick with a manufacturer known for its customer service, like Zeagle, Scubapro, etc. If you are willing to consider other types of BCs, Scubapro and Aqualung make very robust jacket and rear-inflate BCDs. I'm partial to rear-inflate BCs, so the Scubapro Knighthawk and the Seaquest Balance would be at the top of my list. Neither is particularly lightweight, though.

Used tanks with a current hydrotest can be a very good bargain.

If you are patient and know what you are looking for, used regs can present a very good value. I prefer an in-person purchase via Craigslist (vs. Ebay) since I have the opportunity to perform a set of comprehensive functional tests on the reg setup. Last year from a Craigslist ad, I picked up a freshly overhauled Apeks XTX200 + XTX50 octo + SPG + inflater hose for $200. For used regs with an unknown service history, it is safest to have the reg inspected by a trustworthy reg tech and probably a good idea to have it overhauled. Including parts and labor, an overhaul can run $50 - $125, so keep that in mind when calculating the cost to make the reg dive-able. Scubatoys.com often has great deals on new low-to-mid range regs, and their reg servicing is very affordable.

If your interest in scuba diving wanes, then you should be able to sell off all of your used gear for just about the same amount you originally paid for it. This effectively drives your "rental" price down to zero.