Deciding on gear and whether to get it

[aquaregia]

To continue along Bubble's thought, my entire first set of cold water gear, including skin gear, bc, regs, exposure protection, was slightly under $500 all told. Most of that was the skin gear and wetsuit; hard gear (reg, bc, tanks, lead) was around $200.

 

[victorzamora]

Jim, you're a one-of-a-kind guy. I'm seriously impressed by the way you handle everything and have to say you're the right kind of person to deal with in a hobby. Seriously, I hope to do a lot of business with you whenever I get any cash to do business. You've really broken a lot of my expectations (that have been founded by a lot of other reps in a lot of other hobbies). I'm glad scuba has you...and I hope there are many others like you.

The LDS here offered me an AWESOME deal on a Hollis rig. S-series 30# wing, black alu backplate, and the Elite II harness for under $415. Upgrading to the SS backplate is an extra $25. I think for the four extra pounds that the SS would add to my luggage, I'll go cheaper. He said he could get me a similar deal on the reg.....and possibly even better if I buy everything at once. I think that it's more expensive than the Zeagle....but seems to get much better reviews. Also, it's a much better deal than any online store. I haven't talked to him about the specifics of reg deals, so there's no quote them yet. However, I'm looking forward to the numbers on it. The other option IS used, which is a serious consideration at this point.

 

[TSandM]

I think your deal on the Hollis setup is a reasonable one, but I would strongly advise you not to spend the money on the fancy harness. Get a basic webbing harness to start, and then if you don't like it, you can spend the money on the fancy one. I know more people who have discarded fancy harnesses for simple ones than people who have done the reverse, and it's annoying to jettison something you spend a good deal of money on for something cheaper, especially when the expensive item is difficult to resell.

 

[victorzamora]

If it's just the harness, he gave me the option of the Solo harness but it wasn't much cheaper. I decided that the Elite was practically the same except for the crotch strap and the two quick-release buckles. Or are you recommending that I stay away from BP/W setups? Either way, are you recommending that due to my lack of experience diving or just owning my own gear?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

If it's just the harness, he gave me the option of the Solo harness but it wasn't much cheaper. I decided that the Elite was practically the same except for the crotch strap and the two quick-release buckles. Or are you recommending that I stay away from BP/W setups? Either way, are you recommending that due to my lack of experience diving or just owning my own gear?

Actually, I believe that TSandM would be rather encouraging of you moving to a BP/W setup. Her comments were directed specifically at the type of harness.

A "basic" harness, composed of a continuous length of webbing, hardware, and crotchstrap, is generally the best thing to start off with. It's simple, cheap, and quite comfortable when adjusted properly (which takes some trial and error). It will also last quite a long time, and when it wears out, it costs about $10 to purchase brand new webbing -- the hardware can be re-used.

The Elite harness, which you were discussing, has a lot of unnecessary features: a couple of plastic quick-release buckles, sternum strap, velcro hose tamers, etc. It's not made of a single, continuous piece of webbing. When the webbing wears out, it will be expensive to replace. The plastic quick-release buckles can be inadvertently activated during a dive...or they may break if trapped in between two heavy objects (tanks?) during transportation of the rig. However, there are a couple of advantages of this particular harness: (1) the quick-release buckles can make doffing/donning the rig very easy and (2) fit can be customized on-the-spot by quick-adjusting the shoulder straps (very much like a conventional BCD).

Both harness styles work. It's generally best to start with the basic harness and upgrade to the more complicated style if you decide that's what you prefer. The LDS deal that you referenced is a package, so it's difficult to break out the cost of the harness alone. Not sure how much flexibility the shop would have in terms of substituting the basic harness for the Elite harness and whether you'd be saving any extra money due to the substitution.

If I were you, I'd ask the LDS to quote me a price just for the S-30 wing. If the price is less than $250, I'd probably jump on it and then source the rest of the stuff elsewhere. For comparison, Scubatoys.com is selling the Oxycheq 30 lb.-lift Mach V wing for $272. You'll pay less than $250 for it if you ask for the 10% ScubaBoard discount. Shipping is free since the item is over $50...and no tax.

Heck, if you wanted to get the whole BP/W setup from Scubatoys, there's the Oxycheq/Dive Rite package for $375 (add an extra $25 to substitute a stainless steel BP for the aluminum one). The 10% ScubaBoard discount will bring the total price down around $340-$360, depending on the BP you select.

As a college student on a limited budget, I'd probably be more than happy with a used but functional BP/W, used tank, and a new reg set. YMMV.

Lots of options out there...

 

[victorzamora]

Wow, I had NO idea that the Hollis harness was that expensive...that's RIDICULOUS!! I had no idea that the simple, non-"Tech diving" harnesses were that incredibly expensive. So yes, I'll probably end up deciding to get the cheaper harness after I get a quote on the reg. However, I think that the Hollis harnesses come with stainless tank cams. I think that the cheaper harness doesn't have any tank straps, so if I bought the backplate, wing, and cheap harness I'd have to buy tank straps as well. They're $20 a piece. So, the cheapest harness is $25 on ScubaToys, plus $40 for two tank straps is getting close to the cost of the Hollis harness. Or am I wrong?

However, thanks for pointing that out....I had NO idea that cheaper harnesses existed. I just assumed they were all inexplicably expensive. Also, yes....the quote for the wing is under $200.

 

[victorzamora]

Also, I have no interest in purchasing a tank. However, used is something I'm looking into....I simply can't find a good deal on used gear that would be good enough to pull me away from new.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Also, I have no interest in purchasing a tank. However, used is something I'm looking into....I simply can't find a good deal on used gear that would be good enough to pull me away from new.

That's the problem with the local used gear market. The thing you need is not always available, and, if it is, the seller might be asking more than you want to pay. Getting good deals on used gear you need takes patience. It also helps to be living in a place where there is a large and active diving community. All kinds of stuff turn up on our Craiglist boards here in San Diego.

In case you're scouring Craigslist ads for used tanks...
When it comes to tanks, Craigslist sellers don't always have accurate info regarding the kind of tank for sale. It helps to contact the seller and ask for the detailed markings on the shoulder of the tank. Decrypting those numbers will reveal the capacity of the tank, service pressure, and date of last hydrotest (required once every 5 years). It's also nice if the tank has a current VIP (annual inspection). It's a good sign that the tank for sale has some pressurized air inside. It's good practice for you to take a look inside the tank to check for any rust/corrosion prior to agreeing to the sale. Depending on where you live, tank servicing prices will vary: tumbling costs $15-$30, a hydrotest + VIP costs $15-$40, and a VIP only runs $5-$15. Add up how much it will cost to make the used tank dive-able. Then compare the total cost to that of a brand new tank of similar size.

Good luck with everything...

 

[RonFrank]

Here is a Zeagle express tech for $200 new. Its basically a BP/W but the back plate is not alum or steel.... Maybe ABS, so what. This is new, but missing retail packing.

Zeagle Express Tech BCD w/standard harness | eBay

Here is a Mares reg used but worth servicing. This is just a for example.

Scuba Mares MR 12 III Regulator with SOS Gauge and Extras | eBay

There is a ton of used gear out there. So for $300 you can get a start. A bit more with reg service. You should be looking on ebay used or even new for some things. You do not have to drop even $500 for reasonable stuff. Jim maybe a great guy but he is selling new stuff at retail prices. You can go cheaper and be safe and happy with the gear.

 

[victorzamora]

Yeah, the Express Tech is a "polymer reinforced, non-metal backplate". It's a great deal, as well as the reg setup. Those are great finds! Depending on my finances when I get my tax return I'll almost definitely be looking for something just like those.

Bubble, thanks for the advice on tanks. You clarified and confirmed a lot. However, I have no need to buy a scuba tank....I definitely don't do much diving within driving distance. About the local market, I'm in a small town in Southwest Virginia. If your suspicion is that there isn't much of a diving community here, you'd be right! eBay is going to be my solution. Maybe the classifieds here, but it seems like most of the prices on here are rather inflated.

Also, Ron, I know that Jim is selling new gear at retail....but new is something I've been more than willing to pay for in the past. The reasoning being that if anything happens to my gear, I know what the history is. Also, new is safer. Get scammed once and new would've been both cheaper AND better. Plus, I'd hate to be at 120'+ deep and have a reg go out just because I wanted to save a little $$$. I know it's a stretch, but cost isn't the only thing to consider when purchasing new.