Deep Air Training?

[Bismark]

Heh tex, I think you might be confusing our dark and cold dives with your night winter dives....

 

[texdiveguy]

Heh tex, I think you might be confusing our dark and cold dives with your night winter dives....

Bis, you might just be right--lol. Our local diving here in north Texas offers lots of 'daytime darkness',,,,,our winter diving here locally is only in water a balmy 42f.

 

[Meng_Tze]

They test your buoyancy as well, something you would want already to have worked out before you start to use helium mixes.

I would argue that before you jump in water over 100ft with a tank full of air on your back, your buoyancy should be spot on...... forget about deco lessons, mix lessons.

 

[texdiveguy]

I would 'argue' .....

Let me warn you....this is strictly not permitted here.

 

[nereas]

I would argue that before you jump in water over 100ft with a tank full of air on your back, your buoyancy should be spot on...... forget about deco lessons, mix lessons.

Good argument.

However, I think you would be surprised what some tech instructors do, and what others don't.

I worked with two different ones, and the first was very informal about weighting and proper buoyancy, whereas the second was quite meticulous.

It was a good thing that I switched. The amusing thing about it was that the latter was the course director for the former. And so the latter would often say, "you mean he did not teach you that?" The fundamental problem was that the former was a relatively new tech instructor, and he held an attitude that things would eventually just work themselves out underwater, so no reason to be meticulous with your pedagogery.

The most common error that new tech students make is to try to use the same weight belt for single tank diving as for doubles.

The other common problem is that tech is when many divers are first forced to graduate to a drysuit, and leave their thick wetsuits behind for cold waters. It takes time for a diver to get used to a new drysuit, particularly if its their first.

These issues all result in a learning curve for many new tech students regarding proper buoyancy.

 

[Meng_Tze]

I worked with two different ones, and the first was very informal about weighting and proper buoyancy, whereas the second was quite meticulous.

Are you saying that a tech instructor should help a tech student with proper weighting and buoyancy? They should guide at that point, but the student should have it down already, or be able to get it nailed in 1-2 dives.

and he held an attitude that things would eventually just work themselves out underwater, so no reason to be meticulous with your pedagogery.

I was not there, but most tech instructors should be able to expect a certain level of experience and ability. I am not saying let it ride, but surely they can have an expectation of a certain base level to build upon?

The most common error that new tech students make is to try to use the same weight belt for single tank diving as for doubles.

They are clearly not ready for progressing in (tech)diving then. Basic stuff like this...

These issues all result in a learning curve for many new tech students regarding proper buoyancy.

Again, if you don't have the basic down for diving, I would question whether you should progress further at that time.

@tex guy, I am allowed to argue. It is part of what I do :mooner:

 

[MikeFerrara]

A rescue is DANGEROUS even in the shallowest waters. If you have ever taken a Rescue Class you will be taught that you should NEVER EVER put yourself at risk. Trying to perform a rescue at depth is not something that can be taught without breaking a multitude of rules as well as disregarding all common sense. Just as if you came to a house on fire or a victim of electrocution, your FIRST responsibility is to your own survival. If diver X is unable to cope with treacherous currents, you should take that as a hint: DON'T TRY THEM YOURSELF. Trying to perform a skill you rarely use at depth and in a stressful environment just doesn't make sense. There will in all probability be TWO fatalities. One is hard enough to deal with.

I just skimmed the thread so maybe I'm missing your point and I opologize in advance if I'm taking this out of context.

We put outselves at risk by going diving in the first place...or for that matter getting in the car to head to the dive site. What we need to do is manage risk because we can't ever completely avoid it.

I've been involved in several rescues. While I would say that each introduced more risk than doing nothing, the risk was manageable and the benefit sure seemed worth the risk. At least one of those rescues did involve current. The fact that an AOW student who had just been OW certified the previous day (I was a DM assisting with the class) was unable to manage the current was not an indication that I couldn't. I did in fact manage it with the student in tow. Had I been unable to get the student out of the current I would have assited him in making a controlled blue water ascent and hung with him until the boat got to us. A little more risk for me but a little less risk for him Staying on the line and watching him drift to Cuba just didn't seem like an acceptable.

Twice that I can think of, I interupted staged decompression to descend after someone in trouble. I could have gotten bent but I figured I had a better chance of being able to recalculate my decompression or even survive being bent than they would of surviving with no help.

It's all a risk/benefit decision. I wouldn't knowingly commit suicide because someone else was in trouble but I would certainly take some risks to improve their chances.

 

[nereas]

Are you saying that a tech instructor should help a tech student with proper weighting and buoyancy? They should guide at that point, but the student should have it down already, or be able to get it nailed in 1-2 dives.

I was not there, but most tech instructors should be able to expect a certain level of experience and ability. I am not saying let it ride, but surely they can have an expectation of a certain base level to build upon?

They are clearly not ready for progressing in (tech)diving then. Basic stuff like this...

Again, if you don't have the basic down for diving, I would question whether you should progress further at that time.

@tex guy, I am allowed to argue. It is part of what I do :mooner:

Meng, it was a long time ago.

It taught me that there is a really big difference between instructors, including between tech instructors.

And as I said, I think you will find that many new tech students just strap on the same weight belt for doubles as they were using before with a single tank, and if the tech instructor says nothing, then what is the new tech student supposed to think?

 

[The Chairman]

I just skimmed the thread so maybe I'm missing your point and I opologize in advance if I'm taking this out of context.

Yeah, my point was that trying to rescue a distressed diver who is at 180 fsw while you are on NitrOx32 is probably not the wisest of decisions.

 

[DeepSeaDan]

I just skimmed the thread so maybe I'm missing your point and I opologize in advance if I'm taking this out of context.

We put outselves at risk by going diving in the first place...or for that matter getting in the car to head to the dive site. What we need to do is manage risk because we can't ever completely avoid it.

I've been involved in several rescues. While I would say that each introduced more risk than doing nothing, the risk was manageable and the benefit sure seemed worth the risk. At least one of those rescues did involve current. The fact that an AOW student who had just been OW certified the previous day (I was a DM assisting with the class) was unable to manage the current was not an indication that I couldn't. I did in fact manage it with the student in tow. Had I been unable to get the student out of the current I would have assited him in making a controlled blue water ascent and hung with him until the boat got to us. A little more risk for me but a little less risk for him Staying on the line and watching him drift to Cuba just didn't seem like an acceptable.

Twice that I can think of, I interupted staged decompression to descend after someone in trouble. I could have gotten bent but I figured I had a better chance of being able to recalculate my decompression or even survive being bent than they would of surviving with no help.

It's all a risk/benefit decision. I wouldn't knowingly commit suicide because someone else was in trouble but I would certainly take some risks to improve their chances.

...I think most people will respond in some fashion - it is the degree of their response that is critical. People get into trouble when they attempt things beyond their personal capabilities & limitations. What Mike F. may be capable of doing with a good degree of safety may be more than another could muster.

Honest self-appraisal & self-control is key to responder well-being.

DSD