Deep diving accident
- Thread starter fierodiver
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spt29970
Contributor
divebri
Contributor
Well, I may have overstated. Give me a minute.
Okay. One Important Question: did they analyze their gases?
Without knowing their dive plan, it's purely speculation (AGAIN), but if they were expecting, say, 32% and got 40% on the, say, 30ft stop, it could have contributed to his hit.
We don't know what he was breathing when he toxed, though, so what do I know?
He could have been doing 50% at 30 ft, ascending to 15 when he toxed. Like I said, first of all I don't believe anything the media says (reporters get paid just a little bit more than the delivery people) and second of all we don't know their plan.
I'm just glad that they HAD a plan, it included a buddy, and that buddy was capable of saving his life. Kudos to both of them for at least being prepared for the worst.
divebri
Contributor
I looked at your profile, you obviously know the answer.
IF he was at only 15fsw, there is essentially NOTHING that would cause oxytox. PPO2 would be less than 1.5 (I'm not calculating exactly, I'm ballparking. 16.5fsw would be exactly 1.5) on 100% O2. BUT, what if he had bouyancy problems, was at 20 feet, breathing hard on 100% O2? His PPO2 would be above 1.6.
Plus, article doesn't state exactly where he STARTED convulsing, we are assuming it was at 15 ft, so if he had another gas he was using as a deco gas that could have either started or contributed to the convulsion.
My point is, there is no way to know for sure unless we (a) know exactly what gases he was diving, where exactly he switched gases, what the actual versus planned mixes were, blah blah blah. He could have perfectly executed the dive plan, had some over-exertion at a relatively simple 15ft stop, went down an extra 5 ft and got whacked then. Who knows? Which brings me back to hoping that one of the participants tell the detailed story.
IF he was at only 15fsw, there is essentially NOTHING that would cause oxytox. PPO2 would be less than 1.5 (I'm not calculating exactly, I'm ballparking. 16.5fsw would be exactly 1.5) on 100% O2. BUT, what if he had bouyancy problems, was at 20 feet, breathing hard on 100% O2? His PPO2 would be above 1.6.
Plus, article doesn't state exactly where he STARTED convulsing, we are assuming it was at 15 ft, so if he had another gas he was using as a deco gas that could have either started or contributed to the convulsion.
My point is, there is no way to know for sure unless we (a) know exactly what gases he was diving, where exactly he switched gases, what the actual versus planned mixes were, blah blah blah. He could have perfectly executed the dive plan, had some over-exertion at a relatively simple 15ft stop, went down an extra 5 ft and got whacked then. Who knows? Which brings me back to hoping that one of the participants tell the detailed story.
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He was treated by my son, Dr. Samuel Miller, IV, the diving Hyperbaric/ER doctor at the hospital
I have had a father/son - doctor/doctor conversation about the victim. No professional codes were violated by the conversation
The victim is OK-
The victim is a member of the Scuba board and will provide more information if he so desires
(Dr)Sam Miller, 111
I have had a father/son - doctor/doctor conversation about the victim. No professional codes were violated by the conversation
The victim is OK-
The victim is a member of the Scuba board and will provide more information if he so desires
(Dr)Sam Miller, 111
divebri
Contributor
It will be interesting to hear the entire story. I hope they post it.
Speculation is almost always wrong - I would really love to hear their story, along with what they could have done differently to prevent it.
thanks for the update !
Speculation is almost always wrong - I would really love to hear their story, along with what they could have done differently to prevent it.
thanks for the update !
Ayisha
Contributor
That's good to hear, Dr Sam! There seems to be some confusion about the events as provided by the media. Hopefully someone will come on with details... We understand, though, if Dr Sam Jr or you can't share info with us...
DeepSeaExplorer
Contributor
This probably isn't a question of PO2 level. More than likely, he got his two deco bottles mixed up and switch to the wrong gas at depth. For example, switching to O2 at 70ft, instead of 50%.
I agree. the single biggest tech dive killer is still switching to the wrong as at depth. So barring any definitive information on the gasses used or the profile itself, I'll stick with the odds.
One thing to note is that dropping to 30 feet or even 40 feet momentarily on 100% O2 is not going to produce an immediate hit in all circumstances. The US Navy for example allows use of 100% O2 at 40 feet for up to 10 minutes. At the other extreme, following a longish dive with a PPO2 of 1.4 or even worse, 1.6 on the bottom followed by deco with PPO2's starting at 1.6 and staying close to that figure, toxing at 15 feet on 100% O2 is not outside the realm of possibility either. You have to look at the whole profile and the dive itself.
I agree with planning the dive and diving the plan, but I can forsee some circumstances where I may add an air break here and there or modify the deco a bit to utilize a lower PPO2 in cases where the dive as it actually developed may have been pushing things a bit and/or where I got an initial symptom (twitching lips, etc) suggesting a very high potential for oxtox.
One thing to note is that dropping to 30 feet or even 40 feet momentarily on 100% O2 is not going to produce an immediate hit in all circumstances. The US Navy for example allows use of 100% O2 at 40 feet for up to 10 minutes. At the other extreme, following a longish dive with a PPO2 of 1.4 or even worse, 1.6 on the bottom followed by deco with PPO2's starting at 1.6 and staying close to that figure, toxing at 15 feet on 100% O2 is not outside the realm of possibility either. You have to look at the whole profile and the dive itself.
I agree with planning the dive and diving the plan, but I can forsee some circumstances where I may add an air break here and there or modify the deco a bit to utilize a lower PPO2 in cases where the dive as it actually developed may have been pushing things a bit and/or where I got an initial symptom (twitching lips, etc) suggesting a very high potential for oxtox.
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