Deep Diving Specialty

[MikeFerrara]

I don't know if I would call a deep specialty dive a waste of time. I never took it, but I can understand, for someone with limitted understanding of diving science and medicine, it is worth it.

For some divers, it takes repeated exposure to dive tables, NDL, dive planning, and gas management before they firmly grip the concept.

For some divers, their OW course more than adequately cover these aspects. For others, their OW course only slightly touch on these topics.

Before we discourage new divers from taking such specialty course, we need to understand the learning ability of our average OW cert divers.

I whole heartedly support all divers who chose to take "specialty courses". It is kind of sad that the same people who mocks the inadequacy of the current OW curriculum are also the same one discouraging divers from taking additional courses - labeling them as "badge collectors".

That is my 5 cents worth.

The issue I have is that the skills that aren't required or taught in the OW course, aren't taught in the specialty courses either. Students get through an OW course mostly kneeling on the bottom. Then they take an AOW course where they go deep and sit on the bottom....and so on it goes. There's just so much in the way of basic skills and technique, that so very useful on any dive (no matter how shallow), that just isn't taught in any class ever.

After having been an instructor with two different agencies, and as time goes on, I find it harder and harder to believe that whoever wrote the training standards was even a diver.

 

[fisherdvm]

The issue I have is that the skills that aren't required or taught in the OW course, aren't taught in the specialty courses either. Students get through an OW course mostly kneeling on the bottom. Then they take an AOW course where they go deep and sit on the bottom....and so on it goes. There's just so much in the way of basic skills and technique, that so very useful on any dive (no matter how shallow), that just isn't taught in any class ever.

After having been an instructor with two different agencies, and as time goes on, I find it harder and harder to believe that whoever wrote the training standards was even a diver.

I think it is sad ... But hopefully, more instructors will develop their own "AOW" program ... Or will revise their own curriculum to teach skills as those pointed out here.

I don't expect my son to learn a whole lot from his OW, regardless if he does SSI or PADI. We'll probably go up and down, up and down our back yard lake and hover at 15 ft until he gets a good understanding of buoyancy control.

 

[jeckyll]

...

I don't expect my son to learn a whole lot from his OW, regardless if he does SSI or PADI. We'll probably go up and down, up and down our back yard lake and hover at 15 ft until he gets a good understanding of buoyancy control.

(emphasis mine)

See, that is all the people are arguing for. Getting the skills from the previous course down before rushing on to the next course.

I'm all for people getting plenty of good quality training. But getting a deep specialty that doesn't teach you what you need to know to spend time there safely, that's pretty useless.

I got to hang out today with some folks doing a PADI wreck specialty with penetration. Taught by tech divers. They did their penetration in a small very silty room and the exit was pretty much by touch. IMO a worthwhile course as long as it's taught to the _maximum_ of the material, not to the minimum requirements. I think the folks on the course walked away with a healthy respect for wreck penetration and the understanding that they are at the _very_ beginning of being able to do so.

Anyways, enough of that.

 

[captain]

I'm not sure of the assn. that you trained with, but the PADI (OP has a PADI cert) recomended depth limits are 60' for OW, 100' with additional training and experience, and 130' with deep diver training. PADI conciders anything over 130' to be out of the scope of recreational diving and into technical diving. Therefore as a recreational diving assn. they do not encourage or train for diving past 130'.

Matthew

When I took the YMCA course in 1970 there was no such thing as OW or AOW or any other specialty other than instructor. You were certified as a "scuba diver" and the recommended depth limit was 130 feet.

 

[reggiehg]

Thanks for all the replies, guys! Scubaboard is great ;-)

If you went right down to 40 meters and stayed only 2 mins before doing a slow ascent, what do you think your "bottom time" was?

Sorry, I'm not that well-versed w/ the precise technical definitions and/or actual practical significance yet, but this is what I understand:

The PADI OW manual defines "bottom time" as the time from the starting the dive to starting a direct/continuous ascent. So at 40 meters, I think that means I can stay at 40 meters until 9 minutes since I started diving, and then I should go straight up for my required safety stop, at the recommended ascent rate.

From what I understand, that's not what we did. We stayed at 40 meters for only 2 minutes, w/c then allowed us to "linger" on our ascent. And so 2 minutes, strictly speaking, isn't our "bottom time", or is it still? But my real question is what is the technique for this "lingering" ascent? How do I know how much longer I can stay at shallower depths because we didn't use up the "maximum bottom time" at the lowest depth? Should I have learned that in the deep dive speciality or in a multi-level speciality?

I learned many of the other mentioned stuff, like narcosis, color, bouyancy, etc., for the OW license, w/c is not to say that I have mastered them, but at least I know what I have to master. But w/ the deep diving speciality, sure it gave me a feel for it, i.e. narcosis (none, thankfully), breathing rate, etc., but in terms of actual skill, I don't seem to have learned anything new?

So to recap, my questine is what is the technique for this "lingering" ascent? How do I know how much longer I can stay at shallower depths because we didn't use up the "maximum bottom time" at the lowest depth? Should I have learned that in the deep dive speciality or in a multi-level speciality or elsewhere?

Scubaboard rocks!

Reggie

 

[KMD]

So to recap, my questine is what is the technique for this "lingering" ascent? How do I know how much longer I can stay at shallower depths because we didn't use up the "maximum bottom time" at the lowest depth? Should I have learned that in the deep dive speciality or in a multi-level speciality or elsewhere?

You should have learned out to run multi-level profiles in AOW.

Let me pose what I would consider a more important question for you to answer. What type of tanks were you using, and how many Cuft of gas do you need to do a safe ascent?

As one of my instructors once said, "Bends they can treat. Drowning is fatal"

 

[Matthew]

Thanks for all the replies, guys! Scubaboard is great ;-)



Sorry, I'm not that well-versed w/ the precise technical definitions and/or actual practical significance yet, but this is what I understand:

The PADI OW manual defines "bottom time" as the time from the starting the dive to starting a direct/continuous ascent. So at 40 meters, I think that means I can stay at 40 meters until 9 minutes since I started diving, and then I should go straight up for my required safety stop, at the recommended ascent rate.

From what I understand, that's not what we did. We stayed at 40 meters for only 2 minutes, w/c then allowed us to "linger" on our ascent. And so 2 minutes, strictly speaking, isn't our "bottom time", or is it still? But my real question is what is the technique for this "lingering" ascent? How do I know how much longer I can stay at shallower depths because we didn't use up the "maximum bottom time" at the lowest depth? Should I have learned that in the deep dive speciality or in a multi-level speciality?

I learned many of the other mentioned stuff, like narcosis, color, bouyancy, etc., for the OW license, w/c is not to say that I have mastered them, but at least I know what I have to master. But w/ the deep diving speciality, sure it gave me a feel for it, i.e. narcosis (none, thankfully), breathing rate, etc., but in terms of actual skill, I don't seem to have learned anything new?

So to recap, my questine is what is the technique for this "lingering" ascent? How do I know how much longer I can stay at shallower depths because we didn't use up the "maximum bottom time" at the lowest depth? Should I have learned that in the deep dive speciality or in a multi-level speciality or elsewhere?

Scubaboard rocks!

Reggie

A dive computer is the best tool for what you describe.

 

[jeckyll]

A dive computer is the best tool for what you describe.

The computer certainly will tell you how much NDL you have remaining and on a multilevel dive that can be very nice.

Reggie, in general, I would suggest planning a "checkpoint" profile. Search posts by "Uncle Pug" for details (you can learn alot from his posts, hopefully they'll make you think ).

 

[mjatkins]

reggiehg, I would just like to reiterate that what you have been describing in your posts (ie. one deep dive) does not qualify you as a having a PADI deep diver specialty. Did you receive a "deep diver" certification card? If so, unless there was much more to your course that you are not sharing, it should be reported to PADI. I believe (and hope) that you are mistaken about having received this rating, but if you would send me a personal message through this board, I would be happy to run your name through the PADI diver check, and verify for you.

Matthew

 

[TSandM]

The question of multi-level or terrain-based profiles was one that really tormented me when I was first diving, because I simply didn't have the tools to cope with it, and I didn't want to be a "brain dead computer following diver".

The fact is that the iterative calculations required to monitor gas loading in 16 compartments through the sequence of a typical sightseeing dive are beyond the diver. This is where a dive computer comes in handy.

There are other ways of deciding how long you can be where you are and where you're going, but they require an ability to monitor the profile of the dive while it's happening and an understanding of what dive computer algorithms are doing and how that newer divers just don't have.

The short answer is that tables are for square profiles; multi-level dive planning works for fairly simple stairstepped dives, but anything beyond that either requires a computer or some deeper understanding.