As long as you have direct vertical access to air, what difference does it make if it's the middle of the Pacific or a quarter mile back in a cave?
Define 'open water'
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FredT
Guest
Open water connects to the sea with no overhead.
By this definition the north Florida springs commonly used for OW dives qualify, barely. I think of them as a swimming pool with fish.
OTOH I have rescued folks in salt water who have done ALL their diving in the springs through AOW and got into serious trouble lwith navigation, air consumption and time. It's scary to look into a set of eyes under 60' of moonless seawater and have nobody home lookiing back.
I have also dove with divers (and "rescued" a few) from the heartland who learned in the type of water where I did my open water dives in Oklahoma. Cold & murky. The best vis on my OW dive trip was 4-6'. Their first drop into the clear warm water of Coz freaked them, because they unconciously thought they were going to fall to the bottom 70' below. Generally they get squared away in just a few minutes, but the steam engine for the first few minutes runs their air consumption way up on the first dive.
Mud divers seem to adapt to clear a lot faster than clear water divers adapt to mud.
FT
By this definition the north Florida springs commonly used for OW dives qualify, barely. I think of them as a swimming pool with fish.
OTOH I have rescued folks in salt water who have done ALL their diving in the springs through AOW and got into serious trouble lwith navigation, air consumption and time. It's scary to look into a set of eyes under 60' of moonless seawater and have nobody home lookiing back.
I have also dove with divers (and "rescued" a few) from the heartland who learned in the type of water where I did my open water dives in Oklahoma. Cold & murky. The best vis on my OW dive trip was 4-6'. Their first drop into the clear warm water of Coz freaked them, because they unconciously thought they were going to fall to the bottom 70' below. Generally they get squared away in just a few minutes, but the steam engine for the first few minutes runs their air consumption way up on the first dive.
Mud divers seem to adapt to clear a lot faster than clear water divers adapt to mud.
FT
I live near the coast and took my class near the coast but I got my open water cert dives in at a pretty big sinkhole. It's like 130' and there are platforms at 20', 40', 60' and 100'. I think it was more than enough to do OW's There was pleanty of room to do all exercises including navigation.
We did them there because the conditions in the Gulf weren't cooperating.
When I did my first dive in the ocean, I felt very comfortable with my skills.
We did them there because the conditions in the Gulf weren't cooperating.
When I did my first dive in the ocean, I felt very comfortable with my skills.
Well I did my training dives in a swimming pool on the backlot of MGM studios at Disney World and we did our ow check out dives in a lake at 30'. After we all got out c-cards our instructor took us on a weekend trip to West Palm so se could be with us doing out first boat and ocean dives.
To me OW is anything in a natural body of water (no pools) no deeper than 60' , no penetrations, and with a direct ascent to the surface.
To me OW is anything in a natural body of water (no pools) no deeper than 60' , no penetrations, and with a direct ascent to the surface.
"By definition, open water is any body of water considerably larger than a swimming pool that exposes students to an environment similar to that experienced by recreational divers."
"The minimum depth for open water skill evaluations is 5 metres/ 15 feet."
"To determine if a site meets this criteria,consider factors such as its size,depth,whether it is chlorinated or the bottom is lined,and whether a certified diver would actually use the site for a recreational dive. Also,consider whether the site will allow student divers to meet the course performance requirements. By applying these criteria,you may find that some dive sites are suitable for one level of training and not another due to configuration or depth."
"Confined water refers to either a swimming pool or an open water site that offers swimming-pool-like conditions with respect to clarity,calmness, and depth.
1.The depth of the confined water site used for a particular session must allow student divers to meet all performance requirements outlined for that session."
Other clarifications have come down the way in Training Bullitens. In general, open water training is not to be done in any overhead environment (unless that is the topic of the course such as Wreck, Ice, Cavern, etc...). For the purposes of meeting this requirement, it is generally sufficient to avoid all overhangs, swim-thrus and such unless they present no greater overhead obstruction than might be presented by a dive boat overhead.
"The minimum depth for open water skill evaluations is 5 metres/ 15 feet."
"To determine if a site meets this criteria,consider factors such as its size,depth,whether it is chlorinated or the bottom is lined,and whether a certified diver would actually use the site for a recreational dive. Also,consider whether the site will allow student divers to meet the course performance requirements. By applying these criteria,you may find that some dive sites are suitable for one level of training and not another due to configuration or depth."
"Confined water refers to either a swimming pool or an open water site that offers swimming-pool-like conditions with respect to clarity,calmness, and depth.
1.The depth of the confined water site used for a particular session must allow student divers to meet all performance requirements outlined for that session."
Other clarifications have come down the way in Training Bullitens. In general, open water training is not to be done in any overhead environment (unless that is the topic of the course such as Wreck, Ice, Cavern, etc...). For the purposes of meeting this requirement, it is generally sufficient to avoid all overhangs, swim-thrus and such unless they present no greater overhead obstruction than might be presented by a dive boat overhead.
I will say that learning in a small lake in Michigan with water temps of 41 degrees F and wearing a double 7mm wetsuit with visibility of about 5' is about as bad a condition as you can get. Just after getting certified my wife and I went to Cozumel and were amazed at how much easier everything was especially buoyancy, once I was down a practically never touched my BC which is not possible in a double seven.
JessicaDodge
Contributor
As someone who did all of my "open water" dives in what I would consider "contained water" I still think I was trained enough to get my c-card. I did half my dives in the tanks at marine land. (think really big fish tank) and half at blue grotto (think a really big hole in the ground with really cold water) One of the things my instructor said was that the c-card gave us permission to learn more. It wasn't permission to do all kinds of diving in all kinds of conditions, but permission to progress to more strenious conditions. Did I jump directly from my certs to diving in rough seas and fast currents... no. I progessed slowly. Even if I had done all my dives in the ocean, I still wouldn't be ready for those conditions after 5 dives. So I guess to answer your question, I think of open water as water big enough to have waves, currents, those type of things.... but just because you are certified in "open water" Doesn't mean you are any more or less prepared. Just that you also have the right to learn more.
Jessica
Jessica
Getting back to the premise of this thread. I would be very reluctant to call what was described as "open water". If it was the only option, I would, but with the condition that the newly certified divers do a "refresher" when they hit a large deep lake or the open ocean.
Somewhat on topic, for comparison sake, the lake we dive and teach in is large and deep (365 feet at the bottom). Lots of cliffs that drop you from 20 feet to 90 feet, and the water is tea colored. Making vis at best 80 feet, at worst 10 feet. The sunlight drops down so low at 60 feet that all divers carry lights at all times. We have had a few "clear ocean" divers on vacation try out this site, and all of them without exception say that it scares the h*ll out of them the first time they drop to 90 feet off one of the cliffs. All you see at 20 feet is a cliff that drops to a black abyss; you get to see the gray bottom when you are about 20 feet from it when your dive light shines on it. They know it's only 90 feet cause we tell them, and they see one of us go over the edge and descend like skydivers in slow motion, but it scares them just the same.
In contrast when one of us goes to the clear ocean for the first time, the most common report is "H*ll, I was at 180 and looked up, saw the boat and the people jumping in, the only way I knew I was deeper than I should be is because the dive master grabbed me and pointed to my depth gauge". More than one of us "mud" divers have felt out of place for the first dive or two when we hit water so clear, it's like looking through air. We get so used to seeing the light fade as we descend, when we fail to see that queue, that seems so natural to us, we get a little disoriented and have to adapt.
The simple lesson here is, when diving a new site, try to dive with someone who's familiar with the site on your first couple of dives. If possible. If it's not possible, go back to basics and use your first couple of dives as orientation dives with baby steps. Besides, whats the rush, take your time and enjoy yourself. You and your buddy might just get to see some things that you haven't seen before.
Take Care and Dive Safe
Somewhat on topic, for comparison sake, the lake we dive and teach in is large and deep (365 feet at the bottom). Lots of cliffs that drop you from 20 feet to 90 feet, and the water is tea colored. Making vis at best 80 feet, at worst 10 feet. The sunlight drops down so low at 60 feet that all divers carry lights at all times. We have had a few "clear ocean" divers on vacation try out this site, and all of them without exception say that it scares the h*ll out of them the first time they drop to 90 feet off one of the cliffs. All you see at 20 feet is a cliff that drops to a black abyss; you get to see the gray bottom when you are about 20 feet from it when your dive light shines on it. They know it's only 90 feet cause we tell them, and they see one of us go over the edge and descend like skydivers in slow motion, but it scares them just the same.
In contrast when one of us goes to the clear ocean for the first time, the most common report is "H*ll, I was at 180 and looked up, saw the boat and the people jumping in, the only way I knew I was deeper than I should be is because the dive master grabbed me and pointed to my depth gauge". More than one of us "mud" divers have felt out of place for the first dive or two when we hit water so clear, it's like looking through air. We get so used to seeing the light fade as we descend, when we fail to see that queue, that seems so natural to us, we get a little disoriented and have to adapt.
The simple lesson here is, when diving a new site, try to dive with someone who's familiar with the site on your first couple of dives. If possible. If it's not possible, go back to basics and use your first couple of dives as orientation dives with baby steps. Besides, whats the rush, take your time and enjoy yourself. You and your buddy might just get to see some things that you haven't seen before.
Take Care and Dive Safe
Lamar Jr
Contributor
IMHO "open water" is any body of water large enough and deep enough to allow the student to properly practice and demonstrate all of the necessary skills.
Navigation comes to mind. How would you practice navigation in "a hole less than 20 feet wide." ?? I certainly wanted and needed some practice in order to understand the art of navigation.
I do concede however that navigation is probably not a "critical skill" for the new diver (think mask clearing or proper ascents), and some instructors may feel it's ok to skip this topic.
Navigation comes to mind. How would you practice navigation in "a hole less than 20 feet wide." ?? I certainly wanted and needed some practice in order to understand the art of navigation.
I do concede however that navigation is probably not a "critical skill" for the new diver (think mask clearing or proper ascents), and some instructors may feel it's ok to skip this topic.
Jeblis
Contributor
Anything without an overhead obstruction....so yes my sink counts. I doubt I'd log that one though.
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