Dema show???

[Dive Right In Scuba]

b.Determine the rate of erosion amongst existing divers

This one always makes me laugh. PADI, DEMA, everyone knows that the retention rate of divers is low. From Openwater through course director there is a standard 1-2 year span before they usually drop out(most of the time alot less). They don't need to spend money finding this info anymore. They need to stop talking about it and change those numbers. That is a pathetic retention rate, which instead of always figuring that they will replace those that leave with new students they should be figuring out how to stop them from leaving while ALSO attracting new people.

For YEARS it has been " Oh, well they won't stay long, so we need to keep attracting new divers to fill the spots left open" Fix the ultimate problem of people not staying long...Change the way you are teaching and selling your product. Create a Lifestyle which is why all of us got into this. We fell in love with the diving lifestyle. The trips, the fun, the adventure............Create a lifestyle in new divers and you keep them coming back. Show them why nothing else is as fun as joining you on the weekends at your local dive spot, why your trips are the best thing they will do in the year, why this lifestyle is more fun than most things out there.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

b.Determine the rate of erosion amongst existing divers

This one always makes me laugh. PADI, DEMA, everyone knows that the retention rate of divers is low. From Openwater through course director there is a standard 1-2 year span before they usually drop out(most of the time alot less). They don't need to spend money finding this info anymore. They need to stop talking about it and change those numbers. That is a pathetic retention rate, which instead of always figuring that they will replace those that leave with new students they should be figuring out how to stop them from leaving while ALSO attracting new people.

For YEARS it has been " Oh, well they won't stay long, so we need to keep attracting new divers to fill the spots left open" Fix the ultimate problem of people not staying long...Change the way you are teaching and selling your product. Create a Lifestyle which is why all of us got into this. We fell in love with the diving lifestyle. The trips, the fun, the adventure............Create a lifestyle in new divers and you keep them coming back. Show them why nothing else is as fun as joining you on the weekends at your local dive spot, why your trips are the best thing they will do in the year, why this lifestyle is more fun than most things out there.

I'm thinking the retention rate is low for several reasons.

First, it's much easier now to get into scuba than it was years ago. People may think this was a good idea to lessen standards to get more people in, which it did temporarily.

Years ago the training was such that unless you were more of a real water person you were washed out or didn't even bother. Vacation diving wasn't really big so there wasn't much motivation for people that were on the fence about diving to get out there and get certified.
I think now that they fast track people into certifications and almost anybody can get certified, that only boosts sales for a one time shot. The mistake that agencies and LDS's make is thinking they got a diver for life out of it.

When the economy shrinks it's those temporary divers that skip on the activity which the industry has set their bar for. There will always be a hard core group of real water people that will dive no matter what, but unfortunately they're not enough to keep the machine that the industry has created afloat.

The other thing I notice at least in my area, is that our LDS's do very little to perpetuate diving locally. They only care about sales to newly certified divers and maybe filling a charter they are running through the store. They will pump out new divers, many families that are ready to go on vacation, and others that just want to learn how to dive because it seems like a cool thing to do. It's the lone divers that get discouraged because once they get out of class they don't know anybody or know where to go locally. It used to be in my area that the dive shop had fun dives and get togethers so new divers that wanted to dive locally could meet new buddies and go diving. That seems to have gone away. Dive clubs in many cases aren't an option because the members can be very cliquish and don't have time to deal with newbies.

I place a lot of the blame directly on the shoulders of the LDS as far as not promoting and keeping new divers in.
There will always be a percentage of divers that are just interested in once or twice warm water vacation diving, but there is still the hard core local diver that will always dive no matter what, and there is also the potential hard core local diver that is slipping through the cracks.

 

[cerich]

if we make local diving popular again and trained divers well enough to enjoy local diving (right now what we do is like teaching a person to ride a tricycle, then wondering why they don't want to mountain bike on a no path cliff in the Rockies...) we would find that things would be much easier. the travel, equipment sales and retention of the cust base would all fall in place. Oh and the LDS would survive.

Instead we have a industry marketing association that seems to focus on travel divers (guess the expense paid trips are cool...). I don't expect this to change from DEMA.

It is obvious to me that a great percentage of this industry still thinks that what we are experiencing is simply reflective of the economy, it isn't at all. The question now becomes is what type of industry do those of us that are willing to change and fight for diving wanting to see? In my vision it doesn't include a self important, parasitic, non responsive and out of touch "marketing association" that is designed to advance, be controlled by and favor the select few at the expense of the rest of the industry. In the situation the dive industry finds itself in, their actions are not simply detrimental, their actions will contribute to the death of the "host". A nasty parasite indeed!

They fail to understand and they recycle the same old advice we have been hearing for almost 20 years , that very advice is what has lead us here! We have listened, we did support them and we in good faith labored to make the "DEMA" vision for the industry work. Doing so crippled us, we are on our knees and out of breath and we get more of the same crap.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I'm thinking the retention rate is low for several reasons.

First, it's much easier now to get into scuba than it was years ago. People may think this was a good idea to lessen standards to get more people in, which it did temporarily.

Years ago the training was such that unless you were more of a real water person you were washed out or didn't even bother. Vacation diving wasn't really big so there wasn't much motivation for people that were on the fence about diving to get out there and get certified.
I think now that they fast track people into certifications and almost anybody can get certified, that only boosts sales for a one time shot. The mistake that agencies and LDS's make is thinking they got a diver for life out of it.

When the economy shrinks it's those temporary divers that skip on the activity which the industry has set their bar for. There will always be a hard core group of real water people that will dive no matter what, but unfortunately they're not enough to keep the machine that the industry has created afloat.

The other thing I notice at least in my area, is that our LDS's do very little to perpetuate diving locally. They only care about sales to newly certified divers and maybe filling a charter they are running through the store. They will pump out new divers, many families that are ready to go on vacation, and others that just want to learn how to dive because it seems like a cool thing to do. It's the lone divers that get discouraged because once they get out of class they don't know anybody or know where to go locally. It used to be in my area that the dive shop had fun dives and get togethers so new divers that wanted to dive locally could meet new buddies and go diving. That seems to have gone away. Dive clubs in many cases aren't an option because the members can be very cliquish and don't have time to deal with newbies.

I place a lot of the blame directly on the shoulders of the LDS as far as not promoting and keeping new divers in.
There will always be a percentage of divers that are just interested in once or twice warm water vacation diving, but there is still the hard core local diver that will always dive no matter what, and there is also the potential hard core local diver that is slipping through the cracks.

I agree with ALOT of what you are saying. I think the alot of LDS are doing nothing but sitting back waiting for something to change, which is what my earlier post was saying. The thing is, you are talking alot about Openwater student retention. What about the Instructors and Course Director turnover? Its the same as the OW student......Those are the people that want to be in this.

I had an Instructor from this weekend that came to us because his other shop is no longer fun...like you said, they are only in it for the dollar. Not the lifestyle.

Dema does have a huge stake in their dealers, who are also to blame. But Dema is the marketing company that needs to take the reins and tell them some ideas of things to do.

Please don't take this as an LDS just bitching. We are doing ALOT of things....I am stepping OUTSIDE of the LDS role and my company and giving you a look at the entire industry. We are growing very good as we do things different than the rest....

 

[DaveR@DEMA]

Hi Mike we talked at OWU about some of the things that DEMA can help you with as a retail member and I will be in your area soon for an in person meeting as we discussed. In the mean time, let me know when you have time to discuss some of the items that you posted about. I do know several of the board members have vast backgrounds in the retail area and the others are experts in the areas that got them elected (Travel, Training, Manufacturing). Again please let me know when you have time to talk. By the way, I have run successful dive stores for over 15 years before helping start the Pool Tour 12 years ago.
__________________

 

[DaveR@DEMA]

Sorry about some grammar mistakes above. I was at the warehouse waiting for a pool delivery and posted from my phone. By the way the semi got stuck in the new snow and ice and had to get a wrecker to pull him out. Such is life in the Midwest.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Sorry about some grammar mistakes above. I was at the warehouse waiting for a pool delivery and posted from my phone. By the way the semi got stuck in the new snow and ice and had to get a wrecker to pull him out. Such is life in the Midwest.

DEMA is HERE now huh Good to see that!!!

Dave, take nothing personal. I am sure there is ALOT of talent there. But sometimes have all the top talent turns disastrous. If there is the best of the best all in there....why is diving on a decline and why are retailers shutting doors all over the country? This is not something that is DEMAs fault...but there are things DEMA can do to help open the eyes of the LDS that are refusing the change and stuck in the old ways.

You know we will meet up soon. We are swamped at OWU and trying to get back and organized, then re-booth up for the Ghost Ships Festival in Milwaukee that we have 2 booths at.

As soon as I get settled from that show, lets talk. There are alot of people all around, even here that have great ideas. I think the biggest thing would be if DEMA would listen a little instead of thinking they know whats best.....

 

[SDE Dennis]

I got certified after seeing a diver come out of the water. He took me in the next day (he was an instructor). After I was certified my dive shop had a dive of the month club. I went every month. I meet other divers and we dove freshwater lakes, rivers, quarries, and ponds. From there I started diving in the ocean and never looked back. When my wife got certified the shop had dive vacations to exotic places which only the well to do could aford. After certification you need mentoring till you build upon your skills become proficient and meet others that already have the love of diving in them.

 

[DiveNav]

Maybe instead of the "Be a Diver" campaign we should have the "Adopt a Diver" one

Of course you can spin this in 2 ways ....

Positive spin: Every expert diver should "Adopt" a newly certified diver and strive to dive with him/her as much as possible for at least X number of dives .... until the new diver becomes expert .... then the new diver does the same with another newly certified diver ... and so on ....
We could set-up some kind of web based tracking / recognition / rewarding system (funded with DEMA $$$)

Negative spin: LDSs and Instructors are going out of business so they need to be "adopted" :depressed:

Maybe we call this "Mentor a Diver" ... so we avoid spin 2 ?

Alberto (aka eDiver)

 

[SDE Dennis]

Hi Alberto,

Going to BTS?

I like this. It's kinda like pay it forward. Take a new diver under your wing. This would be a great way to retain divers and make new friends. Although some divers don't like being stuck with new divers, but I believe this is on charters.