Dir, utd, wtf?

[ucfdiver]

At the DIRF level its basically on the honor system. UTD has a no smoking requirement as well BTW but I don't think its been tested.

Beyond the intro-y level its agency discretion.

I don't really want to be around smokers (on a charter boat or cave trip) and I don't want to dive with them. But even bigger, I for damn sure don't want to dive with someone who lies about smoking; that's a huge negative on their character for me.

I won't dive with someone who smokes on a deco or cave dive. Have you ever worked around smokers? Besides the fact that they smell and are often rude (look at how many cigarette butts litter the ground everywhere), until their smoke break they become essentially useless, fidgety, unable to concentrate, etc. Imagine being in a cave or having 30min of deco when they get a craving...would you trust your life to someone distracted by a nicotine craving? I won't.

 

[rjack321]

An expired c-card by its nature is a statement from the agency saying I am no longer proficient.

An expired C-card does not say you aren't proficient. It says GUE does not vouch for your proficiency - big difference.

There is no benefit of the doubt and the responsibility for keeping proficient is now shared with the agency.

There certainly are benefits to doubts about proficiency. #1 people are less likely to let their skills lapse in the first place. #2 Its a reminder to think back over the last few years and see what you haven't done and get a refresher from an instructor if you expect to do that in the future.

The ~$20 fee for a new card is trivial compared to even one mix fill.

 

[Slamfire]

It could be $2 or $200. I'm not arguing about the price. As much as I admire most of the curricula and the quality of divers churned out of GUE and UTD there are a couple of crucial little points like this that make me agree with the advice that James gave me earlier. GUE is not for me.

To me scuba, as an activity, should be simple and liberating. Acquire the required knowledge and skills, maintain proficiency at it, and have fun. Everything else added on top of this is superfluous (labels, memberships, c-cards, politics, cliques, etc).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It could be $2 or $200. I'm not arguing about the price. As much as I admire most of the curricula and the quality of divers churned out of GUE and UTD there are a couple of crucial little points like this that make me agree with the advice that James gave me earlier. GUE is not for me.

To me scuba, as an activity, should be simple and liberating. Acquire the required knowledge and skills, maintain proficiency at it, and have fun. Everything else added on top of this is superfluous (labels, memberships, c-cards, politics, cliques, etc).

I can respect this ... I allowed my own GUE card to lapse, and have since pursued other training venues ... but I always have to wonder why folks who have already decided that DIR is not for them hang out in the DIR forum.

It's one thing to come here to learn, or to ask questions about the DIR approach to diving. It's something else altogether ... and rather a violation of both the rules and spirit of the forum ... to come here simply to disagree with how they do things.

See Rule 6 in NetDoc's sticky at the top of the forum titled "Welcome to the DIR Forum". If you have fundamental disagreements with the DIR answers to questions, this forum's not the appropriate place to voice them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

To me scuba, as an activity, should be simple and liberating. Acquire the required knowledge and skills, maintain proficiency at it, and have fun. Everything else added on top of this is superfluous (labels, memberships, c-cards, politics, cliques, etc).

That's great but for the bigger dives I'm trying we can't have such a free spirit. One or even 2 people can't get the job done. Once you start talking about multiple teams in the water, sharing gear for the bigger "push" dives etc. an individualistic attitude doesn't work so well anymore. At the recreational or basic tech non-project dives its alot easier to be flexible on gases or how your regs & stages are setup, fitness, etc

 

[Slamfire]

I can respect this ... I allowed my own GUE card to lapse, and have since pursued other training venues ... but I always have to wonder why folks who have already decided that DIR is not for them hang out in the DIR forum.

It's one thing to come here to learn, or to ask questions about the DIR approach to diving. It's something else altogether ... and rather a violation of both the rules and spirit of the forum ... to come here simply to disagree with how they do things.

See Rule 6 in NetDoc's sticky at the top of the forum titled "Welcome to the DIR Forum". If you have fundamental disagreements with the DIR answers to questions, this forum's not the appropriate place to voice them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, I do not have an agenda against GUE or UTD. Until reading about it on this thread I did not know about expiring c-cards. That is the only reason why I made so much fuzz about it. I think we have already discussed this point sufficiently and I won't bring it up again, because whatever I could bring up would be a repetition of what I already said. I did not arrive to this thread with the pre-conceived idea of causing trouble in relation to expiring c-cards.

Hope you guys still deem me worthy of diving with you. I promise I won't pressure you into going deeper than 100' on air.

 

[Slamfire]

That's great but for the bigger dives I'm trying we can't have such a free spirit. One or even 2 people can't get the job done. Once you start talking about multiple teams in the water, sharing gear for the bigger "push" dives etc. an individualistic attitude doesn't work so well anymore. At the recreational or basic tech non-project dives its alot easier to be flexible on gases or how your regs & stages are setup, fitness, etc

I think I could relate to that. I've never done one of those bigger, multiple team dives and I must confess, I have found the idea about participating in one of those attractive. A few weeks ago cfenton posted a report about an unknown ship in Bedwell Bay that they filmed and measured. I found that was pretty cool and wouldn't have minded being part of that team.

However, in my particular case, I am not sure that right now is the right time for me to get involved in something that requires that degree of focused dedication. I have too many hobbies and too many pending projects. I would love if 15 yrs from now I could get involved with my son in a project like that.

 

[rjack321]

I think I could relate to that. I've never done one of those bigger, multiple team dives and I must confess, I have found the idea about participating in one of those attractive. A few weeks ago cfenton posted a report about an unknown ship in Bedwell Bay that they filmed and measured. I found that was pretty cool and wouldn't have minded being part of that team.

However, in my particular case, I am not sure that right now is the right time for me to get involved in something that requires that degree of focused dedication. I have too many hobbies and too many pending projects. I would love if 15 yrs from now I could get involved with my son in a project like that.

I've been in the water with some of those guys and its been fun.

For my dives its more having buddies fly in from LA etc and being on the same page for pretty big wreck dives (>200ft) even though we don't dive together very often. Or being able to plan on leapfrogging off each other's efforts in a cave.

I know they aren't just experimenting and making gear or proceedural changes in between our vacations together (at least not without serious thought and they know how I do things the "old way" and will surely bring it up for discussion ahead of time if they've found something better for them).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, I do not have an agenda against GUE or UTD. Until reading about it on this thread I did not know about expiring c-cards. That is the only reason why I made so much fuzz about it. I think we have already discussed this point sufficiently and I won't bring it up again, because whatever I could bring up would be a repetition of what I already said. I did not arrive to this thread with the pre-conceived idea of causing trouble in relation to expiring c-cards.

Hope you guys still deem me worthy of diving with you. I promise I won't pressure you into going deeper than 100' on air.

I'll dive with you anytime ... maybe once the Annapolis goes down we can do a dive together ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lobstah]

I can't do that. I smoke. I'm just asking, not speculating.

You already convinced yourself that you can't do that, yet you ask? No offense but that is pure trolling. Doesn't seem like you expected to gain anything from our answers besides pointing a finger at bad DIR guys who will undoubtedly refuse to dive with you because you a) have no DIR training, b) are a smoker

I hate to disappoint you, but DIR guys I know will dive with people without DIR training as long as they feel it can be safely executed. But you are also partially right - most divers I know will be hardly enjoying a day on a boat with someone who blows smoke in their faces and eventually proceeds to throw cig butt overboard. That dislike has nothing to do with agency they trained with or how much they conform to DIR.