Dir-?

[jepuskar]

There are people that think Scuba diving in general is a death wish, this is ignorance. There are Scuba divers who think rebreather divers are on a death wish, this is also ignorance. There are rebreather divers who think all non-rebreather divers are ignorant, this is ignorance.

There are some people who lead very happy lives never exploring past their home towns boundaries. This is not ignorance, it is a choice based on ones needs.

There are Scuba divers who do not desire to dive on a rebreather. This is not ignorance, it is a choice based on ones needs.

There are Scuba divers who insist that rebreathers are a death wish. Now that is good ole IGNORANCE!

 

[BigJetDriver]

jepuskar once bubbled...
There are Scuba divers who do not desire to dive on a rebreather. This is not ignorance, it is a choice based on ones needs.

There are Scuba divers who insist that rebreathers are a death wish. Now that is good ole IGNORANCE!

Jason,

HEAR, HEAR!!!

The only note I will make is that my comment to Braunbehrens still stands. I don't knock his choice to dive as he chooses, but since he does not choose rebreathers, and this forum IS "All About Rebreathers", this is NOT the forum of choice for him!

 

[cornfed]

saturated once bubbled...
Could you clarify your position. What is meant by small errors? Expain why you feel the system is flawed. I think the systems have impoved greatly since I started diving on them in 79'.

Like I said I know very little about RBs. That combined with the fact you've been diving CC longer then I've been on OC (and almost as long as I've been alive) should make this a rather one sided debate. But making unfounded criticism is the internet way, so here we go...

I wasn't talking specifically about the Inspiration but more about systems design in general. You don't want something which is likely to happen to have a deleterious effect on the system. I won't get satellite tv because the dish would point near a large tree in my front yard. There is a very high probability that the branch will be blown in front of the dish and I'll miss the Simpsons -- small problem, major disaster! I'm not saying satellite is bad; I'm saying that I've done the analysis and it's not worth the risk. If I lived in a wheat field in Kansas with no trees around I'd consider getting it.

With CCRs (the Inspiration in particular) there is evidence, albeit anecdotal, that there are a lot of branches waiting to blow in. Every time I hear about an accident it's always the same, "John Doe died, but it was user error. He forgot to do such-and-such, you really need to be careful with that." I didn't hear many of these stories before I started to wonder why people keep making mistakes. Is the scrubber material too hard to pack? Are they forgetting to calibrate something? Is it task loading? Are people getting RB certified that shouldn't be? I don't know and I'm probably not qualified to address this.

It just seems that if you spend all your time trimming trees sooner of later you'll be staring at static instead of watching the Superbowl.

Cornfed

 

[saturated]

Well made point. In my opinion there are no small mistakes on breathers. You either do it correctly or you dont.

Training is a big factor in rebreathers as it is in OC. I'm sure there are plenty of unqualified guys diving breathers. I've seen them for sale on ebay.

Pride and impatience cause a great deal of the accidents. Not doing proper predive checks(prebreath). Ignorring audible warnings or bad cell, bad battery warnings. (I made that mistake on batts once). and continuing the dive. Most problems become apparent on the surface. There have been many documented cases of people ignoring warnings and continuing the dive. Its hard to say no when youve paid $50 and spent an hour getting to a dive site. You get out and callibrate your unit and it gives you a battery warning, but what the hell I've got 2 so I make the slave the master and the warning goes away...Fatal Mistake and definately diver error. There are hundreds of things we as users can do to facilitate a problem.

I wasn't talking specifically about the Inspiration but more about systems design in general. You don't want something which is likely to happen to have a deleterious effect on the system. I won't get satellite tv because the dish would point near a large tree in my front yard. There is a very high probability that the branch will be blown in front of the dish and I'll miss the Simpsons -- small problem, major disaster! I'm not saying satellite is bad; I'm saying that I've done the analysis and it's not worth the risk. If I lived in a wheat field in Kansas with no trees around I'd consider getting it.

For the above example, lets say you have cable and a dish. We know that when the wind blows out of the west the tree will block sat reception. So we install a digital weathervane in your front yard. We then give you a remote monitor that gives you wind direction and beeps and gives you a warning when the wind is out of the west. This unit also has a switch to switch from sat to cable. Now if your monitor warns you the wind is out of the west , is it the sats fault you missed your show? Nope you should have switched to cable! What if you look down and the monitors not working? Better switch to cable!

Thats alot of how some accidents have gone down. If you go to madmoles site has pretty good reports on most of the accidents involving the inspiration.

 

[Braunbehrens]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...

We seem to be forgetting something here. The title of this forum is "All About Rebreathers"! As such, it is a forum for those who are, by definition, interested in learning about, or more about, the subject of rebreathers.

I wasn't the one who started a DIR thread here. I did not raise any new issues, I simply replied to the ones that were already raised.

Are you so scared of "the amish diver" that you have to ask him to leave? If that is the case, I suggest you re-examine what it is you are really so scared of.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...



I wasn't the one who started a DIR thread here. I did not raise any new issues, I simply replied to the ones that were already raised.

Are you so scared of "the amish diver" that you have to ask him to leave? If that is the case, I suggest you re-examine what it is you are really so scared of.

Braunbehrens,

You MISSED the whole point. YOU don't like rebreathers, judging by your own words. You don't want to have a rebreather, judging by your own words. You don't want to dive with folks who dive on rebreathers, judging by your own words.

Since this forum is entitled "All About Rebreathers", this is, by your own admission, NOT the forum of choice for YOU. So, what is your agenda here?

As for being scared, yes, I will admit to having been scared once or twice in my life. As a Combat Air Rescue pilot, and later as a pilot for "The State Department", I've been shot at more than most people will ever have hot dinners, and mobbed, and chased...and more! As a police officer, (I am currently serving---It is one of several "hats" I wear.) I still go in harm's way by choice! I also pilot an Extended Range Rebreather and am working my way down to 600 fsw. Since I do this by choice, I could be described as somewhat crazy, but then so could all of us as divers.

Am I scared of "The Amish Diving Society"? Not bloody likely, my friend! It may surprise you to know that if you check my posts in other areas, I even recommend GUE training, among other agencies! I will be the first to say that they have some damn good things to offer!

Nevertheless, the point is STILL this:

This forum is entitled "All About Rebreathers"! By definition it is for those who want to learn about, or learn MORE about rebreathers. We have some excellent resources here, such our writer "Saturation", who has more time on "re-breathers" than some have just "breathing"! This forum is NOT entitled "I don't care about rebreathers and all I want to do is hang around and knock their use"! Since the latter seems to be your agenda, again judging by your own words, please hang up the phone!=-)

 

[saturated]

Braunbehrens

I suggest you re-examine what it is you are really so scared of.

In a word, missinformation.

I originally started this thread because of a bad experience. I had no comprehension of GUE, DIR. Since then I have appologized. I spouted off and bashed a group when it was only the two I met I should have bashed. Since then I have had correspondence with some great GUE trained guys and have learned a great deal. I was wrong to bash an entire goup on the actions of a few. I was uninformed and misinformed and had no right to spread my level of misinformation.

 

[Braunbehrens]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


SNIP a bunch of unrelated stuff SNIP

This forum is NOT entitled "I don't care about rebreathers and all I want to do is hang around and knock their use"! Since the latter seems to be your agenda, again judging by your own words, please hang up the phone!=-)

Not at all. If you examine my posts in this thread I was responding to a question about DIR divers. I don't hang aoround here, other than this thread, so don't worry your pretty little head about it.

I also don't think this forum is only for people who love rebreathers. I think it's for all people who wish to discuss ANYTHING to do with rebreathers, including whether or not they are a reasonable choice for a given dive, or any dive for that matter.

I have to say, I don't enjoy your personal attacks. It's always ironic to me when DIR divers get attacked in this way, especially when they are nice and curteous people.

If you have an argument, make it. If you don't, then I suggest YOU hang up the phone, as you say.

P.S. Edited just to add this note: I don't hold BigJets attitude against all rebreather divers. I know plenty of friendly ones.

 

[cornfed]

saturated once bubbled...

For the above example, lets say you have cable and a dish. We know that when the wind blows out of the west the tree will block sat reception. So we install a digital weathervane in your front yard. We then give you a remote monitor that gives you wind direction and beeps and gives you a warning when the wind is out of the west. This unit also has a switch to switch from sat to cable. Now if your monitor warns you the wind is out of the west , is it the sats fault you missed your show? Nope you should have switched to cable! What if you look down and the monitors not working? Better switch to cable!

You're right, it's your fault you missed your show. But that doesn't mean the system wasn't designed poorly. You're using the cable to backup the dish when the cable can do the job by itself.

If you can't reach around you ass and get you elbow it certainly isn't your ass' fault. Sure you can take yoga and increase your flexabilty or you could just leave your ass out of the equation.

Thats alot of how some accidents have gone down. If you go to madmoles site has pretty good reports on most of the accidents involving the inspiration.

Do you have the url?

Cornfed

 

[JeffG]

The Link Mad Mole