Distant Road to Tech - Gear Advice for 2016 Goal

[TSandM]

Double Al80s, though, are atrocious in cold water. They really aren't light tanks, and you have to wear significantly more weight to sink them. They are also annoyingly butt-light when empty (worse than Faber 85s). A small set of steel doubles, like 72s or 85s, is a great place to start with double tanks.

To the OP: I have no idea how you find competent sidemount instruction in Michigan. Sidemount came out of cave diving, and I think still, the majority of people with extensive experience with it, and who teach it well, are where the caves are. Why do you want to consider sidemount?

 

[Doc Harry]

Double Al80s, though, are atrocious in cold water.

All of my local diving is in a fresh-water reservoir, 40 degrees below 30 feet, and I use double AL80s with a drysuit all the time. I use a 7-pound V weight and a can light. That's it.

It's significantly more pleasant than staggering around under heavy steel tanks.

I'm old, and I have a climb up and down hills to get to in and out the water. I try to go as light as possible. AL80s are the way to go.

 

[TSandM]

A Luxfer 80 weighs 31.3 pounds, and is +4.4 when empty. A PST HP 100 weighs 33 pounds, but is -1.4 empty. Since the weight of bands, manifold and the additional regulator is the same, by switching from aluminum to steel, you have added 3 pounds of tank weight, but taken off almost 12 pounds of lead.

If you are using only 7 pounds of weight with aluminum tanks in 40 degree water, either you manage with the thinnest possible exposure protection (brrr!) or I respectfully offer that you have not blown your tanks down to or below 500 psi and checked your buoyancy in that state.

The majority of people I know who dive doubles dive with way too little weight -- and this is true even of instructors. When I took my C2 class, I got in the pool at home to figure out proper weighting for LP95s in fresh water, with the exposure protection I would use in Florida, and with empty tanks. I concluded I needed 7 pounds on the bottom bolt to get perfect buoyancy and balance. The first thing my instructor did in Florida was take it away, which caused me no end of issues throughout the class. (In retrospect, one of my big mistakes was not to stand up to him about that.). Similarly, when I did my cavern/Intro, my instructor took away my weight. In my Full Cave class, though, I had one day when I couldn't get the weight I was used to and was 3 lbs light. At the end of a 48 minute lights-out air-sharing exit, I was down to 400 psi, and the only way I could stay underwater was to swim constantly.

I think most people are so struck by how negative they are with doubles, with all the gas, that they think they need very little weight. Even my Fundies instructor wore a 12 pound weight belt, with double steels and a steel plate.

 

[scuba-flea]

OP here.

At this point my main goal is to figure out for 2016 how much money I need to squirrel away and what I need equipment wise for the first class or two.

It kind of sounds like, from this thread and others that I have read, that I can take the Tech-40 and maybe a side mount course and not have to get too much gear. I know the journey into tech tends to lighten one's wallet significantly, and want to prepare in advance for that. For me, that is starting a spreadsheet with the wish list and dividing the months so I mathematically know how much to put away. I also want the ability to do that and still have money left over to go on dive trips prior to 2016. So if I set 2016 as Tech-40 and Side mount, then I can still afford the 2015 Okinawa/Indonesia 2 week trip. And, that would leave some higher classes in my favorite year 2017 (the year I am eligible to retire from my first career choice and start anew).

Am I reading some of the other posts correct in that Tech-40 and Side Mount wouldn't require extra purchased gear from my recreational?

And if that is the case, then is it at Tech 45 or at Tech 50 where you will def need doubles, back plate, dry suit.....et cetera.

I've also purchased used copies of the Tec Deep Diver manual which I've finished my first reading on, as well as the Complete Diver and Advanced Trimix Diving which will be my next read. I prefer to get books in advance, get one quick read in to understand the book's style. Then I go back and study the materials with flashcards, highlighters and such. Again, call me anal. I figure if I am going to do anything that has an increased possibility of danger I always like to research and study it relentlessly. Hence, not trying to jump into all the tech courses this year when I made up my mind that is the direction I think is for me.

Thanks again and wonderful responses so far.

 

[Ken T]

You can use recreational gear with some modifications.
Here are a few cut and paste points from the handout I received for the Tec-40 course.

C. Cylinders and valves
1. You generally want a high capacity cylinder as your primary cylinder with the Tec 40 kit. This is because you use more gas on a deeper dive, and you need to keep a larger reserve.
2. 11-12 litre/71.2-80 cubic foot cylinders are generally considered the minimum size – larger (18 litre/100 cubic foot+ ) cylinders are preferred, but not readily available in some locations.
a. If you opt for double cylinders, you should wear the standardized techni-cal rig, not the Tec 40 kit.

3. The cylinder should have an H or Y valve, which allows you to have two entirely separate regulators. In case of a failure, you can shut down the gas to either one and still access the remaining gas with the other.
a. With Tec 40 limits, it is alternatively acceptable to have a large, main cylinder with a pony bottle in place of an H/Y valve.
b. If you use a pony instead of an H/Y valve, it should have a capacity of 850 litres free gas/30 cf or larger.
c. The pony usually has the same gas (EANx blend or air) as the main cylinder. If it has a higher oxygen content, the gas must still be breathable at the deepest planned depth (max 1.4 ata/bar), with a margin for error.
4. The DIN (Deutche Industrie Norm) threaded system for valve apertures is generally preferred to the yoke system in tec diving.
5. Valve caps should not be tied to valves as they commonly are in recreational diving. Remove completely when diving.



E. BCD and harness
1. Most BCDs with shoulder and hip D-rings (other suitable attachment hard-ware in those locations) can be used for a Tec 40 rig. The D-rings are neces-sary for your decompression cylinder.
2. A tec diving harness configured for a single cylinder is generally recom-mended, though not essential, for the Tec 40 kit.
a. Tec harnesses are harnesses that mount on top of an interchangeable BCD bladder. There are rigid plate (steel, aluminum or plastic) and all fabric versions.
b. Tec harnesses have crotch straps, adjustable shoulder and waist D-rings and other features suited to higher level tec diving.
c. The tec harness is recommended because you will use it when you move on to the Tec 45 course, and because you can use a double bladder BCD (BCD with two independent bladders and inflation/ deflation systems) so you have backup buoyancy control.
• In a decompression situation, simply dropping weights to restore buoyancy may not be an option because you would have too much buoyancy to maintain a decompression stop.
• Planning for BCD failure must be part of planning any technical dive. The double bladder BCD is the simplest, most reliable option.
• The Tec 40 rig (single cylinder) is not as negatively buoyant as higher level tec rigs, so redundant buoyancy is not manda-tory at this level.


H. Instrumentation
1. You need two ways of determining your decompression requirements.
a. The simplest option is to wear two dive computers.
b. The second option is to wear a computer with depth gauge, timer and decompression tables.
2. For Tec 40, you only need a standard air dive computer or computers.
a. An EANx compatible computer is recommended – allows you to benefit from more bottom time with enriched air, and calculates your oxygen exposure.
b. If you have yet to invest in your dive computers, choose models that run multiple gases and trimix so you’ll be set for Tec 45 and beyond.
3. Arm mounted instruments (other than SPG) are generally preferred (required at the Tec 45 level and up).
4. Mechanical SPGs are generally preferred because they’re simple and reliable.
5. Compass – You need a high quality, liquid filled model if using a standard compass. Many newer dive computers have electronic compasses. The compass is commonly carried in a pouch or pocket until needed.

 

[Kevrumbo]

OP here.

At this point my main goal is to figure out for 2016 how much money I need to squirrel away and what I need equipment wise for the first class or two.

It kind of sounds like, from this thread and others that I have read, that I can take the Tech-40 and maybe a side mount course and not have to get too much gear. I know the journey into tech tends to lighten one's wallet significantly, and want to prepare in advance for that. For me, that is starting a spreadsheet with the wish list and dividing the months so I mathematically know how much to put away. I also want the ability to do that and still have money left over to go on dive trips prior to 2016. So if I set 2016 as Tech-40 and Side mount, then I can still afford the 2015 Okinawa/Indonesia 2 week trip. And, that would leave some higher classes in my favorite year 2017 (the year I am eligible to retire from my first career choice and start anew).

Am I reading some of the other posts correct in that Tech-40 and Side Mount wouldn't require extra purchased gear from my recreational?

And if that is the case, then is it at Tech 45 or at Tech 50 where you will def need doubles, back plate, dry suit.....et cetera.

I've also purchased used copies of the Tec Deep Diver manual which I've finished my first reading on, as well as the Complete Diver and Advanced Trimix Diving which will be my next read. I prefer to get books in advance, get one quick read in to understand the book's style. Then I go back and study the materials with flashcards, highlighters and such. Again, call me anal. I figure if I am going to do anything that has an increased possibility of danger I always like to research and study it relentlessly. Hence, not trying to jump into all the tech courses this year when I made up my mind that is the direction I think is for me.

Thanks again and wonderful responses so far.

Since you're going out there to Indonesia & Okinawa, try to stop by Tech Asia Puerto Galera Philippines for a short Intro to Tech Diving class and to have objective answers for all your questions in person. (And you're landlocked there in MO, a long way from either US coast for effective ocean open water training -- might as well go overseas there for your Tec40 class in 2016).

They teach PADI Tec, IANTD and GUE classes, and have the best combination of deep reef warm water diving & cadre of Instructors in all SE Asia:

Diver Training Courses | Tech Asia

 

[Michael Guerrero]

Scuba-Flea, I live near KC (up at Ft. Leavenworth) and would be happy to meet up some time to go over gear. I can recommend some good "local" shops for tech training and gear rental to feel out what you like.

Mike

 

[mathauck0814]

As far as I know, there isn't really a single course for this. Would the best way to go be to take separate courses (PSAI has a doubles course, and a couple of agencies have sidemount courses), or are there instructors out there who could whip one up on an ad-hoc basis (no c-card needed), and how would I find one within driving distance of Michigan?

Not sure about Michigan, but there's no reason a competent technical instructor who dives both configurations couldn't do a clinic for you to see the differences without conferring a C-card. Sidemount is trendy enough that most any instructor you find who teaches it can also teach you backmount - I doubt there are many good instructors teaching sidemount who didn't start with a twinset.

 

[Doppler]

All of my local diving is in a fresh-water reservoir, 40 degrees below 30 feet, and I use double AL80s with a drysuit all the time. I use a 7-pound V weight and a can light. That's it.

It's significantly more pleasant than staggering around under heavy steel tanks.

I'm old, and I have a climb up and down hills to get to in and out the water. I try to go as light as possible. AL80s are the way to go.

A set of twin aluminum cylinders will have a mass of approximately 32 kilos... empty... a set of steel cylinders with the same rated volume will have a mass of approximately 31 kilos. By the time you have factored in a V-Weight to get the aluminum cylinders to sink, you could be diving twin steel LP 85s.

 

[Kevrumbo]

A set of twin aluminum cylinders will have a mass of approximately 32 kilos... empty... a set of steel cylinders with the same rated volume will have a mass of approximately 31 kilos. By the time you have factored in a V-Weight to get the aluminum cylinders to sink, you could be diving twin steel LP 85s.

The most common cylinder in use at all dive-ops worldwide is the ubiquitous 11L Aluminium AL80 tank, in either singles configuration for sidemount doubles or conventional backmount manifolded doubles. I'd rather spend the additional airline excess baggage fee of $400 on bringing my Scooter than a doubles set of twin steel 85's. . .