Dive Boat Etiquette on SoCal Boats

[ChrisM]

people from other country's where tipping is not the norm. My last live aboard in Oz passengers from Oz, Argentina and Japan. We were the only ones to tip.

Well you also have to use common sense and know what the customs are where you are going. If tipping is not the norm, you adjust accordingly. I tried to tip a flyfishing guide in New Zealand once and he refused it because, as he said,. "it's not their way".

Also, remember that, as on local boats, on liveaboards you generally tip one amount for the entire crew - including the DM, the cooks, the engineer (i.e., people you never meet but who make sure your toilet gets unclogged), unless you want to give a specific amount to a specific person for a job well done. So stiffing on a tip for the whole crew because you got lousy service from one person is in my opinion bad form.

I understand that some people disagree with this, but that's just one man's opinion. I am not super wealthy (or even wealthy, for that matter), but when budgeting for a trip, I include the tip as part of the budget. I don't assume all divers are rich. In fact, of all the divers I know, I only know one that could fall into that category. Most of my dive buddies are regular working class folk.


YMMV, MHO, etc etc etc (last post re: tips so as not to permanently jijack the thread).....

And to bring back on topic -- another gripe, if someone's stuff is in a bunk, don't take it. Only thing worse than finding someone's gear in your space is finding someone's snoring body in your bunk - it's amazingm but it happens.

Chris

 

[hermosadive]

North American tipping has got out of control. It has become expected in most service industries and I believe very little thought goes into "earning" the tip by most employees.

Over the weekend I went to Anacapa. We drove up the night before and went to dinner at a local restuarant. Others on the boat planned on going to the same estabilishment as well. 2 of us got there first, seeing the outside deck was pretty empty we asked to be seated there. We explained that there might be some other people coming and they will want to sit in the same area, but they are separate from our bill. To sum it up, we pulled the tables together once the 8 joined us, but we all ordered seperately and were billed seperately. An 18% tip was added to each person's bill. This always pisses me off. If we pulled the tables apart, I'm 100% sure we wouldn't have a tip added to our bill. It has become the norm at another dive club meeting I go to as well.

I will tip a boat a $ amount that I am comfortable with. I do not feel obligated to tip a particular percentage, but I do tip. I would prefer if business would just pay proper wages and add it into the actual cost. Life would be easier for everyone (except the business owner who would have to pay UI, Health and all the other stuff based on a higher wage).

 

[cdiver2]

Well you also have to use common sense and know what the customs are where you are going. If tipping is not the norm, you adjust accordingly. I tried to tip a flyfishing guide in New Zealand once and he refused it because, as he said,. "it's not their way".

Also, remember that, as on local boats, on liveaboards you generally tip one amount for the entire crew - including the DM, the cooks, the engineer (i.e., people you never meet but who make sure your toilet gets unclogged), unless you want to give a specific amount to a specific person for a job well done. So stiffing on a tip for the whole crew because you got lousy service from one person is in my opinion bad form.

I understand that some people disagree with this, but that's just one man's opinion. I am not super wealthy (or even wealthy, for that matter), but when budgeting for a trip, I include the tip as part of the budget. I don't assume all divers are rich. In fact, of all the divers I know, I only know one that could fall into that category. Most of my dive buddies are regular working class folk.


YMMV, MHO, etc etc etc (last post re: tips so as not to permanently jijack the thread).....

And to bring back on topic -- another gripe, if someone's stuff is in a bunk, don't take it. Only thing worse than finding someone's gear in your space is finding someone's snoring body in your bunk - it's amazingm but it happens.

Chris

Cook, Engineer/plumber etc, do you tip these people at hotel 6, or if you are at a restaurant and the toilet backs up are you going to tip the plumber when he comes, or do you expect the toilets to be working. It used to be you would tip for EXCEPTIONAL service not for doing the job they are paid for

 

[divinman]

Simply my humble opinion, but if you can afford to drop $2K + for a week of diving, you can afford the tip.

Chris

Me thinks you assume too much Chris. It takes me nearly a year to save and scrape up enough for the trip. That said, I never would "stiff" a crew. I budget what I can AFFORD to tip. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is. I will never work in a tips based business again. I rely on solid income, not potential income.

As an aside, so you all don't just think I am a cheap SOB, I usually tip my waitpersons 20% or more and at the bar 1 drink=$1 tip...always

 

[ChrisM]

Cook, Engineer/plumber etc, do you tip these people at hotel 6, or if you are at a restaurant and the toilet backs up are you going to tip the plumber when he comes, or do you expect the toilets to be working. It used to be you would tip for EXCEPTIONAL service not for doing the job they are paid for

Well, since the question was asked, I will do another tip post then and keep the thread from dying.....

cook at Motel 6? I don't eat at Motel 6 , but when and if I order room service, I tip, which I assume makes its way through the ranks. As I do a waiter. Appropriately for the job. When you tip on a liveaboard, you give an amount to the purser. How they divy up the money is up to them. Where'd the plumber come from???? I don't tip a plumber when he comes to my house, fer chrissakes, why would I tip him on a boat (and there is no plumber on a boat -- it's called the capt/dm/whoever is available to fix it)? I have seen an engineer fix people's scuba and camera gear that broke on a trip. D***** straight I think they deserve a tip.

Just to make it clear... I also think tipping has gotten out of control. I don't tip at Subway or Starbucks with those stupid tip jars for people doing their job. But people have customs. When it is customary, I tip, and my tip is based on the service received. I also do not think that tipping is automatic. If I get sh*** service on a liveaboard I will tip accordingly. But if all goes well and I get good, enthusiastic service, then 10% is customary. Sorry if that offends people. I am surprised that it does.

My real problem with the thread was the implication that someone feels its OK to spend $2K on a week charter (say, e.g. Kona Aggressor), plus air fare, and buying EANx for the week, and buying beers, and shirts and hats and...... and then say they can't afford a tip of $200. You wouldn't go into a nice restaurant for a $100 meal and then give $5 after fine service because, well, you can't afford it. Well, I wouldn't (actually, I wouldn't buy a $100 meal, but that's another thread).

Whether the system should be changed -- i.e. owners should pay a living wage -- is another issue entirely, and implicates a lot more factors than tipping. I think employees should be paid a fair wage for the work they do. If you have a problem with that, talk to Captain Tim, Captain Greg, Captain Ray, etc. But I don't think the stance against customary tipping reflected in this thread arises from a Quixotian desire to change the system. Lots of people get tips - waiters, bell hops, hotel maids, baggage handlers at LAX, cab drivers - these are customs.

Liveaboard tipping is the way it is. Oh, and by the way, tipping is not compulsory. You don't HAVE to tip anyone on a liveaboard. It's not good manners, but neither is farting at the dinner table. No one can stop you.

Last point, there is a big difference between tipping on the Sundiver after a Catalina day trip and tipping on the Aggressor in Palau. On liveaboards, you have what are basically servants making your room, cooking your meals, serving your food, cleaning up after you, running the dive deck, leading dives, fetching you in the zodiac, and in general watching out for you, 7 days a week 24 hours a day, and in most cases is is the same people doing all of this. Saturday morning comes, you get off the boat, they spend 6 hours getting ready for the next group, and do it all over again. These people work damn hard (I am assuming that those against the custom of tipping on liveaboards have been on one and know how hard the job is to work on a LA, so this should be nothing new). Not that local DMs work less hard during their work hours, but they go home at the end of the day (for day trips), and don't have the same duties as those on liveaboards.

Did they choose their line of work? Yup. Are the tips appreciated? Yup.

All right, all right, I know... shut up already... So I am off my soapbox and have my flame retardant suit on. Flame on!

Chris

Oh, and PS... this is my opinion... it really shouldn't bother anyone too much.....

PS #2... "It takes me nearly a year to save and scrape up enough for the trip" Yeah, me too. I know what it's like

 

[cdiver2]

Well, since the question was asked, I will do another tip post then and keep the thread from dying.....

cook at Motel 6? I don't eat at Motel 6 , but when and if I order room service, I tip, which I assume makes its way through the ranks. As I do a waiter. Appropriately for the job. When you tip on a liveaboard, you give an amount to the purser. How they divy up the money is up to them. Where'd the plumber come from???? I don't tip a plumber when he comes to my house, fer chrissakes, why would I tip him on a boat (and there is no plumber on a boat -- it's called the capt/dm/whoever is available to fix it)? I have seen an engineer fix people's scuba and camera gear that broke on a trip. D***** straight I think they deserve a tip.

Just to make it clear... I also think tipping has gotten out of control. I don't tip at Subway or Starbucks with those stupid tip jars for people doing their job. But people have customs. When it is customary, I tip, and my tip is based on the service received. I also do not think that tipping is automatic. If I get sh*** service on a liveaboard I will tip accordingly. But if all goes well and I get good, enthusiastic service, then 10% is customary. Sorry if that offends people. I am surprised that it does.

My real problem with the thread was the implication that someone feels its OK to spend $2K on a week charter (say, e.g. Kona Aggressor), plus air fare, and buying EANx for the week, and buying beers, and shirts and hats and...... and then say they can't afford a tip of $200. You wouldn't go into a nice restaurant for a $100 meal and then give $5 after fine service because, well, you can't afford it. Well, I wouldn't (actually, I wouldn't buy a $100 meal, but that's another thread).

Whether the system should be changed -- i.e. owners should pay a living wage -- is another issue entirely, and implicates a lot more factors than tipping. I think employees should be paid a fair wage for the work they do. If you have a problem with that, talk to Captain Tim, Captain Greg, Captain Ray, etc. But I don't think the stance against customary tipping reflected in this thread arises from a Quixotian desire to change the system. Lots of people get tips - waiters, bell hops, hotel maids, baggage handlers at LAX, cab drivers - these are customs.

Liveaboard tipping is the way it is. Oh, and by the way, tipping is not compulsory. You don't HAVE to tip anyone on a liveaboard. It's not good manners, but neither is farting at the dinner table. No one can stop you.

Last point, there is a big difference between tipping on the Sundiver after a Catalina day trip and tipping on the Aggressor in Palau. On liveaboards, you have what are basically servants making your room, cooking your meals, serving your food, cleaning up after you, running the dive deck, leading dives, fetching you in the zodiac, and in general watching out for you, 7 days a week 24 hours a day, and in most cases is is the same people doing all of this. Saturday morning comes, you get off the boat, they spend 6 hours getting ready for the next group, and do it all over again. These people work damn hard (I am assuming that those against the custom of tipping on liveaboards have been on one and know how hard the job is to work on a LA, so this should be nothing new). Not that local DMs work less hard during their work hours, but they go home at the end of the day (for day trips), and don't have the same duties as those on liveaboards.

Did they choose their line of work? Yup. Are the tips appreciated? Yup.

All right, all right, I know... shut up already... So I am off my soapbox and have my flame retardant suit on. Flame on!

Chris

Oh, and PS... this is my opinion... it really shouldn't bother anyone too much.....

You brought up the subject of unclogging the HEAD not me. If I have paid for a hotel room for the night I expect the head to work and not have to tip someone if it needs unclogging, likewise on a boat. Cooks Restaurant cooks hotel cooks do not get tipped they get a wage so why should a cook on a boat be tipped. Its us that are stupid and them taking advantage of our stupidity.
If you think a DM works hard your going to get a real shock if you go into the world of the unskilled construction worker that saves his Penny's for a couple of years to go on a dive trip (and then is told he should not be there if he can not tip at the rate someone else says he should). My answer to that is don't tell me how to run my life and I wont tell you how to run yours, after all no of us are without sin

 

[shark.byte.usa]

....Life would be easier for everyone (except the business owner who would have to pay UI, Health and all the other stuff based on a higher wage).

I don't disagree, the funny thing is they already do, these businesses (restraunts) are taxed (payroll taxes) 15% of their gross sales, that's why the restraunts then make it mandatory for servers to report at least 15% of their gross sales as tip income daily. The government is not so stupid in this case, they want their piece of the pie.

I don't know of any other industry where this is the case only bars/restraunts, that's why I feel more obligated to tip a server than anyone else, they have to really screw up for me to stiff em', but they also have to do an above average job to get more than 15% from me.

Everyone else I'm tipping is for exceptional service, not simply for doing their job they are paid to do. Tipping is out of control, I mean $600 for a week liveaboard, not me, I wouldn't be tipping that much, about $20/day pp. seems fair to me, if I received the service I expected, if I didn't it might be less.

 

[divinman]

But if all goes well and I get good, enthusiastic service, then 10% is customary. Sorry if that offends people. I am surprised that it does.

Tipping liveaboard crew does not offend me. IF I could afford to tip 10% I WOULD tip 10%. Every trip I go on, the crew has worked like dogs but still manage to smile, help when needed, and generally have a great attitude. Because I know I will be "short tipping" I do not expect and actually discourage the "spoon feeding" others get. I set up and tear down my own gear. I make my own damned bed in the morning. I surface AT THE BOAT so they don't have to come get me in the zodiac. It a matter of MEANS not intent Chris. I wish I could but I WILL NOT SKIP A TRIP BECAUSE MY TIP WILL BE LESS THAN IS CUSTOMARY.

That's it, I am done........

Oh, and I agree with 99% of what Max said.

 

[SoCalAngel]

North American tipping has got out of control. It has become expected in most service industries and I believe very little thought goes into "earning" the tip by most employees.

Over the weekend I went to Anacapa. We drove up the night before and went to dinner at a local restuarant. Others on the boat planned on going to the same estabilishment as well. 2 of us got there first, seeing the outside deck was pretty empty we asked to be seated there. We explained that there might be some other people coming and they will want to sit in the same area, but they are separate from our bill. To sum it up, we pulled the tables together once the 8 joined us, but we all ordered seperately and were billed seperately. An 18% tip was added to each person's bill. This always pisses me off. If we pulled the tables apart, I'm 100% sure we wouldn't have a tip added to our bill. It has become the norm at another dive club meeting I go to as well.

I will tip a boat a $ amount that I am comfortable with. I do not feel obligated to tip a particular percentage, but I do tip. I would prefer if business would just pay proper wages and add it into the actual cost. Life would be easier for everyone (except the business owner who would have to pay UI, Health and all the other stuff based on a higher wage).

Are you talking that Ital restaurant? I won't go there anymore, because of that! We had a group of 6 and they added tip. Sevrice was awful.. Wrong food, no soup or salads delivered on time. Stuff was sent bakc, and they didn't even take it off the bill. One lady had to leave early, so she asked the waitress for bill seperate. She paid her's and left. When the rest of us were leaving, her food was double billed on the check. Nope, I will NOT ever go there again!

I called the place the next day to complain to the manager, and he didn't care. Didn't offer us a refund, credit, or anything. Lamesness AND no service!

 

[SANDUNE]

Man-o-man... we have strong opinions out here, don't we? :sprite10: It's all good. I've only been diving since 2003, have about 38 dives in so far, mostly local day trips in the Atlantic, a week on the island of Bonaire that had day trips, but I haven't been on a liveaboard yet. With my short history in diving I have been told by others that $3-5 per tank is customary, so I feel that is the least amount I should budget for proper service. I do agree that tipping has gotten out-of-hand in some areas, but it is what it is. I usually tip too much, I'm guilty as charged, but the service will be over the top to earn it. I leave the quality of service they want to give up to them and I tip accordingly.

Did anyone ever see that sitcom "third rock from the sun" with John Lithgow and Jane Curtain when they put a pile of ones in the middle of the table and when he thought he was getting bad service he took a dollar off the pile? It was very funny.
Last but not least, I looked in my small webster dictionary and found the following definition... (tip n:a gift or small sum given for a service performed or anticipated)

Dive Happy!